July 1960
Issue: 26
EMRE’s Conversations: 26
EMRE’s Conversations 26
Emre – To see the praying of people gives me relieving independent of their religion. Is it right to despise the praying of the people concerning that some of them are praying to cross and the others fire? Doesn’t God know that they pray to Him whether they pray the cross or fire? If He doesn’t despise that, how can we despise?
I’ve seen the praying of two Christians in church twice in my life which I couldn’t forget.
The railway from Adana to Mardin was under control of French people up to year 1933. They had much loved me. The Director, Depot Manager, Engineer were taking me and making me talk when I was free. If they had a funeral, they were taking me to the church. There was a depot manager named Pres who is 65 years old. He had no child. He had an education in denominational school for three years but he didn’t want to be a priest then decided to be an engineer. He was the Railway Depot Manager. He had a mother about 85 years old. She used to invite me to their home to talk after we stop working. Madam, Pres and his mother were loving me just like their child. They were listening the subjects being told very carefully. They were almost in love with spirituality.At some night, mother says to his son: (she wasn’t ill at that time)
-“My son, I’m going to die”
-No mom, don’t be afraid.
-I’m not afraid, but you need to call and bring İsmail.
He couldn’t find me because we were living in the city. At midnight his mother says:
–My son, I’ll leave; but don’t take me to the graveyard unless İsmail comes; you have to wait for him.
In the morning, when I came to work there was a wagon technician named Mustafa; who is forewarned. Mustafa took me to their home. Pres embraced me. He said the will of his mother. I sat at the bedside of the dead. They didn’t touch until I came. When I arrived, they undressed the women, dressed a new cloth including the shoes, put her in a coffin.This happened at 1931. The graveyard was far away then they brought a lorry, decorated with the flowers around it. I sat at the head of it. They brought the dead to the Bebekli Church. I also hold one of the edges of the coffin and we put it to the place of burial cases. A priest who is in white clothes opened the cover of the coffin and started to say the prayers by turning around it. Then he splashed the water in a small bottle onto the women. He was so experienced in this job, even one drop of water didn’t fall. Then he climbed to a high place and started to say something; but they weren’t in Turkish. During this time, the listeners were looking his face just like being in ecstasy. It was such an ultimate state of the nonexistence… For a while, a girl who is in 15 or 16 year old occurred; kneeled her right knee and sat. She was crying so much, believe me her breast got wet. When I saw her in that state, I lost my all senses of my body. When her divine love shined on the face of the priest and returned to her face, I became just like her. Isn’t this love, this cry for God? Can this affection, this contiguity be worthless? We muslims are despising the Christians but in Koran God says that there is no need to fear for the ones who believe in His books and prophets , I mean Jews, Christians and even Mandeans. (Bakara/ 62).
In the beginning of Koran it has been said that “praise is to God/Allah who is the Lord of all realms.” If God unifies all of the realms in Himself, can there be a differentiation of religions or nations? The direction of all religions are forwarded to a point(dot), just so they don’t stick, they walk. Which prophecy of a prophet is rejected by The Prophet Mohammed ? He sees every one right.
Q-What is your opinion about the Turkish reading of Surah, during the praying(namaz)?
Emre – Even this child who is in five or six years old, undresses, we feel strange when we see. There is no nudity for the ones who is absent in God but for the people who are sensible and lustful, it’s needed to be dressed. Even Koran must be dressed for the ones who don’t have the secret of being absent in God. But in order to understand, it’s necessary to translate to Turkish. Because God says that : “I’ve sent Koran to you, in order to understand.” But it’s not easy to understand Koran even if we translate it to Turkish. Do Arabs understand Koran while it’s in Arabic? If they understood, all of them would must be saints. It’s not easy for the belief being perfect. The sun of that Might, doesn’t shine on the hearts who isn’t perfect.
If we understood the meaning of the prayer surah, instead of standing in front of God and trying to become absent in Him, we would be dealing with the meaning of verses and can’t savor the prayer. For example : “May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he. His property and gains had no advantage for him. He and his wife will be thrown to the fire. His wife is a porter of wood carrying a rope made of twisted date fiber.“ After this, there comes to kneel saying that “God is great”. When the dress of meaning in prayer surah is undressed, one begins to deal with Abu Lahab and his wife more than God. But if one just after saying “God is great”, becomes absent in God, there remains neither Abu Leheb nor his wife.
At one time, Junayd Al-Bagdadi had ordered a long travel to one of his disciples. As soon as receiving the order, the disciple have had a state and forgot even the year and time. After travelling around for one year, he has returned to near his master. He knocked the door. (Tak! Tak!) Junayd was busy with some book. His wife was taking bath just after the door of the house. Junayd asks:
-Who’s that?
The disciple answers in a state of unawareness:
–God! (Hak)
Junayd orders his wife:
-Open the door soon.
-But I’m naked…
Junayd is also nervous: he shouts his wife with high voice. His wife is afraid of that and opens the door, hiding herself back the door. The disciple enters suddenly and hugs with his master. Junayd sees that the state of disciple is ok. but his knowledge is incomplete, he gives him a sieve in order to awake him and tell him the meaning of the subject, and says:
–My son, Mehmet! Go and bring a sieve full of hay from the stable of that neighbour without informing him.
Mehmet says:
-Ok. sir. Then he goes and takes the hay. While he was returning, he realizes that it’s an illicit work. He comes again to his master’s home and knocks the door again. Junayd asks:
-Who’s that?
-It’s me sir, Mehmet.
Junayd tells his wife:
-When you go to open the door, cover your head.
The woman opens the door. The disciple enters as being coyly and sane. He sits for a while then Junayd says:
-My son, you need two more years trip.
The disciple says:
-Ok sir and goes out.
When the man leaves, his wife asks Junayd:
–What a dilemma is this? At first case you made me open the door naked, but in the second case you made me cover my head, what’s the meaning of that?
-At first case, when I asked “who is that?” he said “God”. At that time there was no one other than God for him. At the second case, when I asked “who’s that?” he said “it’s me, Mehmet”. While he was sane, as being Mehmet he also had an ego and lust. Then I realized that he has a state without knowledge. I made him steal in order to make him cognize the plurality. The love without knowledge fires the human, turns him/her to the ash. When he made robbery, he became sane. The owner of hay, stable, donkey, sieve started to surround him. He started to think with the worldly sight. When I asked “who’s that”, he said “Mehmet”. God left, being Mehmet came. Then you needed to cover.
This poor one (Emre’s himself) wishes for all people to have the state of being absent in God and I wish to serve them. But my service is neither sheikdom nor perfection, it’s all about service and love. No way, I don’t have any other thought and desire.
That’s so hard, besides so easy. It’s similar to “Say, I seek refuge with the Lord of the Dawn”. If you hear, it’s ego; if you open, it’s ok.
Koran can’t be understood without reviving it. The people who don’t revive, who don’t rise can’t see the alive Koran. Koran isn’t a rolled thing.
The religion is similar to the water feeding the earth. The nations without religion, are like the dry earth which has no harvest.
Russians will eat their heart out soon. Their time has been reached to the end. Chinese live more than this. There are many religious people in China but not much in Russia.
Each religion belongs to us. The Prophet Mohammed, has approved each one of the prophets. But Islam is the only religion which is progressing. The others were suitable for their time and they have stayed at that point. The Christianity and Judaism don’t contain our religion, they’re small. But our religion contains all of them. So, we need every religion. We love the religious people but we don’t love the ones who have narrow religion.
Being religious in vain, doesn’t have an importance.
The real subject is to enter inside of the religion. Is there any meaning to walk around the door? Since the religion is a path, we need to complete and finish the path. It’s be wasted if we can’t arrive the end of the path end stay at the middle. The religion is to reach the coast of “Eternal Being” from the coast of our being.
In some of the revelations, there are verses like “put away the religion, seek for the holy friend (dost)”. Those words can be misunderstood by mind. We don’t reject religion. We came out the city and arrived our village. Did the path remain? So, saying “put away the religion” is something like “don’t stand on the way, enter the home”.
Mr. İsmail Hüsrev asked to us: “do you have a tariq? “
First of all so called we had, but now it’s over. There’s a path, we don’t deny; but we walked and finished. There remained no path, no tariq. The end of religion is absentment; I mean the state which The Prophet Mohammed defined as “being inadequate”. While the one approaching God, an absentment is manifested. This is the death before being dead. Our absentment is the existence of God. Some people walk to this realm through the way of knowledge, the others walk through the way of love. The life of mortal is not enough to walk and finish the way of knowledge. One can’t reach there unless meeting love. Love leads so fast. The knowledge can’t race with love, remains back. Look,
Yunus Emre! He neither can read nor write. Even if he could, he was uncapable to write book. If he were a scholar, he would write different books.
The religion comes to end when the path is completed. I mean the religions which we differentiated as Christianity, Judaism, Islam come to an end. Or rather, those rivers unite at that point, they become a large, unique river, and then they pour into the ocean.
The humanity can’t enter the way of “oneness” without coming that unification point after finishing the paths of religion.
The outsides of the other religions have also been progressed in knowledge and inside of them in state. But not as much as the religion of The Prophet Mohammed which is new every day. They can’t find the “eternally alive” being who is looking through our eyes unless walking and finishing that way. Even the brilliance of the people who make missiles, is weak in this subject. The reason is their bond with Jesus. But they’re also contiguous with us.
Q. – Yes, bee makes honeycomb but that honeycomb is the same with the occured one million years ago. As you said, religion is always new just like the human intelligence.
Emre – The outside of the religion is various, but inside is just one.
Look at the Christianity; there are so much various beliefs. In Islam there are a lot of sects, dispositions. But when entered, the words of all of them are same including The Prophet Mohammed’s. Their essence, taste, fondness are all same. Look at the hodjas remained at the outside of the religion; they all have different words, claims. Anyway, that sweet realm comes after the end of claim. The claim comes from the ignorance which is always the enemy of civilization.
Q. – At some time I have been in İstanbul. We were at the coast with someone from the Consulate of Sweden. They requested to say poem from me. I said “Çanakkale Martyrs” of Mehmet Akif and a lyric from Nedim. That Swedish came near to me and said:
– “Do you know Persian”?
– I said “so-so”. He asked another question:
– “What can be the source of literature”?
– I said “love”. He understood this as a lustful love. I also said in that meaning.
– He said “No”.
– I said “epic love”. He again wasn’t satisfied.
– He asked: “Did you read Rumi (Mevlana)”?
– I said “no, but our teacher has told us”.
- He said “the source of all loves is sufism, the love of sufism.”
Emre – Really, there’s no the definition of love just like there’s no definition of flavor. Because it’s also a flavor. The definition of love is according to the desire of each person. Love surrounds everything. The gambler loves gambling. The merchant loves money. Missiler loves missile. The purest one is to love one who had reached the source of love, who became mannish. Mevlânâ, had been in love with Shams. Who was Shams? Shams was a man, a human who had reached the state of perfection through getting over his ego. For this reason Mevlânâ was in love with him. Love is a very far-reaching thing. Cat also is in love but with rat.
The definition of love is impossible. We talked a lot but could we agree? The meaning is according to each one’s mind. Love doesn’t accept interpretation just like The Koran.
Q. – So do Lord (Rab), isn’t it?
Emre – Yes. The one who unknows, looks for Lord in sky. Although Lord is the tutor, teacher of the spiritual path. The most common name of God, mentioned in Koran is Lord. If Koran were just the Arabic words in Koran, all of the Arabs would understand Koran and be saint. But Koran is in the language of Lord (Rab) instead of Arabic. If human walks in the divine path, there comes a time Koran is read, said from the eye and said from inside, listened from the inside.
The life of this body is provided by food. But, there comes a time the body can’t live, falls despite of all food we eat. When the body of the food is disappeared I mean when it is eaten, it occurs in our body. So, in spirituality pleasure comes just after learning to be silent. (Turning to Mustafa Mumkaya who is looking at him as being an admirer)
-Father Mustafa! Come and tell your state to these friends, if you can…
Father Mustafa – ………….
Emre – Look, he is telling with his eyes. If heart works, the tongue stops, the human starts to be fed from the eye, then the inside which we call as spirit, grows. If we remain inside of this body which is grown by food which will be decayed at some day, we also will be decayed together with it. Bad morality is the smell of this decay.
Just like being understood the taste of the food when its matter disappeared, I mean after being eaten, the pleasant state of love begins after we passed out. Look, we are all absent in each other. Why? Because we are in love. Is there any multitude now? I’m absent in all of you, you’re also absent in me. To where did go our own existence? The only One remained at stage is the Being of God. After we faded from the scene, He is the One who is listening and saying. Now, neither you, nor me exist. Neither major nor minor ones exist; except One God… Which one of us can say I? When the being and ego is terminated, also the torment terminates. But this word is understood different for each mind. Giving up ego doesn’t mean to give up body and mind. We become mad if we give up the mind. Giving up the mind means to give up the childhood, babyhood.
Muhyiddin Ibn Al-Arabi says: “In Arabic the mind (Akıl), comes from the word “ikal” which is connected to the feet of camels.” The thing which binds the feet of human is also their own mind. Neither a binded feet nor a binded mind can walk. “May you give up mind” means improve your partial mind to the unified mind. Partial mind can’t reach unified mind with itself, because of its binded feet. Only love can take away it. The Prophet Mohammed called this “refref “, “Gabriel”. Does the Prophet Mohammed need a vehicle who knows that God is surrounding everywhere?
We assume that everyone smelling the same rose, senses the same smell. No, it’s being smelled according to the mind and the glands in his/her nose. Even though the nose wears down in time, it loses even the smelling ability, or this ability decreases. The words which we listen or read are similar to them. It’s not easy to understand Koran. Some people listen Koran only with their ears and repeat what’s heard. This is just an imitation which has a usage neither for him/her nor the other people. Koran is totally love. But if there is lust or fame in this love, alas!; it decays as well as makes decay. It’s a shame if someone boasts about his/her expressions in the subject of knowledge of God.
Last night we were at some place. Our conversation was on the Koran and sufism. In Koran God says “We even don’t want thanks from you.” Does God request something as a response of what He gave to us? What He needs? Money, prayer, love? All of His saying is for our advantage.
There comes a time Koran becomes alive. But this is realized only by means of love. For example, if your students don’t love you, they can’t learn anything from you. If you don’t love, you also can’t teach them. Love is mutual.The Prophet Mohammed said: “Everything is in pair. “ When we mention about love, there are many types of love. The lustful person cognizes love in a different way. Lust is also love but it’s related with body. Female plants are opened while the male plants are passing near to them through the wind, and takes them inside. So, we can’t cognize this state and knowledge unless uniting our loves with the permission of God.
Q. – This can only be done by means of purification of the character, isn’t it sir?
Emre – Yes. The guide of this knowledge is morality and propriety. For this reason, it’s been said that “may you have the morality of God.”
Q. – Some people are accepting, the others are rejecting the hell.
Emre – When it’s been understood and digested that the hell is about ignorance, there stays no hell. After the cognition of heaven as an eternal pleasure, there stays no heaven also. For this reason it’s been said that neither hell, nor heaven exists.
We don’t talk to conservatives about those subjects.
Behlool couldn’t go the mosque. Because he had learned to pray while walking around. On some day Haroon Rasheed had taken him away to mosque by force. After the prayer, preacher had begun to say: “hell consists of fire but there are many kiosks, houries at heaven.” Behlool suddenly goes out. After a while he returns to the mosque with a shovel full of fire and a bucket full of water. When the people saw him like this, they ask:
-What are you doing Behlool? He says:
-I will put out the hell with this water, and burn the heaven with this fire, in order to save the people from this preacher.
Yes, there exist heaven and hell; but not in the way we understood. If someone who didn’t arrive the eternal pleasure comes and asks about heaven and hell, how can you tell him/her that subject? This can only be told by love. Only love can take away us to there, not the others.
Q. – I’ve read the couplet of Rumi to someone saying that “the real praying isn’t just to put the head on the earth.” but he didn’t believe that.
Emre – If you show the original couplet, he also gets angry. There was an old woman who had loved me when I was a child. Despite of I’ve killed his son by mistake at my childhood she even wasn’t angry with me. When my mother tended to beat me, she had said
“ no, it’s an accident, the life of the child is that much.” This woman used to go to the near of a man who is called as “battalion pastor”. She has said our revelations to him. The man said that “these are the words of a profane”. I asked to the women “does this pastor read the book of Yunus Emre?” She said, “yes, he always read.” At this time our daughters were sewing something. I took some rags and put them to some pages of the book and said; “bring this book to him in order to read the pages which I’ve pointed.” She said ok. and brought it to the man. When he read the pointed pages, he had thrown the book.The book had been broken into pieces. The conservative people are like this, they can’t digest.
Most of our conceptions are wrong. For example the aim of the ablution is being clean. Besides, can water wash our bad character and clean our sins as Yunus Emre said. There is a mosque in Halep with a pool inside. There are two gaps of the pool one at the top and the other at the bottom to carry the water. That means a small path to carry the water. Water comes in and goes out slowly. People are performing ablution in there.
Did The Prophet Mohammed said so? Although his all words have some meaning. For example let’s talk about pray:
The pray has merits in both health and moral aspects. Morning pray is being performed when there is a light under which white and black yarns can be separated from the seven steps path. The light of a radio receiver is also lit with that much degree of light. That light receives the sound from east and west. During the morning pray time there are no strong winds. At morning times, a cold wind blows. A light dew rains. This light wind arranges blood and fat. The body also takes advantage from light at this time and rained dew.
Our body is full of billions of lights. We have all of the things which exist in the world. There is gold in body, so there is also jeweler. There is copper and coppersmith. As a conclusion, everything, all of them exist. Those artist microbes take the mines they need, bring them to the required places. While we are sleeping, they also sleep. It’s bad to sleep at daytime; it damages our health. Because while we are sleeping during the day, there are some lives which are working without sleeping. But some of them sleep together with us. In that case, some of them sleep, the others don’t sleep and the system of body is corrupted then we get sick.
As we woke up in morning, the artists which are seeking the mind, including the ones which had slept on the way, all of the sleeping lives in our body, wake up. At that time of the morning, they become more alive when the ablution with cold water is performed.
When we begin to pray, we raise our hand to near our head. Our steady microbes in our hand, I mean health microbes which are always being towards the downside, begins to move in that situation. The timings of bending and raising of pray, during the times in which there is no common clock, are being measured by means of repeating three times of the meaningful sentences. (Sübhâne Rabbiyel’azîm)
Those movements are being repeated five times a day. Of course, there is an aim in praying for the sake of health. But the actual aim is peace; I mean to cognize, know that we are in front of God. Whereas we start to think about selling, buying as soon as we began praying.
Whereas there are a lot of prays. The pray isn’t just in a specific type. If one knows that he/she is really in front of the presence of God, can he/she know what he will say or read? Is there any count, cycle in pray of that person? Well, they are discussing whether or not to have reform in religion. This is also a reform and it’s being automatically. But it’s not in form, it’s in the meaning. Because the form of pray is the most beautiful form of the prays. The Prophet Mohammed had said: “As time passed, judgements also changes.” But it can’t be realized by force, it’s being automatically.
Q. – The ones who are in love, don’t be sorry because of something. They are in an eternal pleasure. How do they obtain this pleasure?
Emre – It’s been asked Behlool: “You’re walking around as barefoot what about the pleasure you have.” Behlool replies:
–I can’t say here.
-Where do you say?
-Follow me.
Actually the one who is asking is Haroon Rasheed, but instead of asking directly, he makes the viziers ask. Behlool goes out of the city by running. Viziers were being forced to run after him. There has been a ruin at the outside of city. Everywhere has been ruined except a pillar. Behlool says to viziers:
-“Let’s knock over this.”
They knock down. And then Behlool says:
– “Let’s raise this pillar holding from the both edges.“ They try but they don’t succeed. He says:
– “Raise it holding from one end.” All of them try to raise holding from one edge. He says:
-“Raise it holding from the other end.” They can raise again.
After making them raise the pillar, Behlool runs away laughing. Viziers come to Sultan and tell him the subject. “He made us do something like those things then ran away without saying something. So, we couldn’t understand.” Haroon Rasheed says:
–I see, it means that if it’s been held from both ends, it doesn’t raise. The pleasure of Behlool, I mean spiritual pleasure has been manifested after neglecting the pleasure of lustily world pleasures.
Lust isn’t just the desires intended to women or man. Lust means lustiness actually. Lust is about the thing which we have greed and desire. As Behlool tries to tell; either worldly or spiritual pleasures!
Q – I’ve heard that someone is constructing a shrine while being alive.
Emre – A perfect calls his disciples at the last days of his life and says them:
-“I’m leaving this world.” And gives them some advices. His disciples ask:
-“Shall we construct a shrine for you?”
-He says: “No, just leave me to the meadows.“
–But my sir, wild animals and weasels will eat you in meadows.
-If so, leave a wand near to me.
-What’s for this wand, sir?
-In order to chase the weasels.
-But my sir, can a dead one chase the weasel?
-So what’s the value of a carrion for building a shrine which can’t even chase the weasels?
The disciples understand the matter.
We are trying to exit from this carrion of body; the other one wishes to build a shrine to his/her carrion.
Q – My sir, one of the hodjas I mean the pastor of village have made burn the bath of the village when they rejected his proposal for a girl from this village.
Emre – At one time, a jewish man have learned that there are a lot of jewels at the bottom of a mountain. But there is no way to the mountain. He thinks about a cheat, uses a crier to cry at the city: “I will give a man a lot of money and a beautiful woman if he accepts to enter inside of a mule just one hour. “ A silly person accepts this. The man puts the silly one into a dead mule’s belly, sews it. Then he leaves the mule to a place which is visited by eagles. The eagles raise the carrion to that mountain. Man goes out when he cut the mule’s belly. The eagles afraid of him and run away. The Jewish man already had recommended to the silly one: “May you throw out the jewels to me then I will show you the way to descend.” The man throws out the jewels but the Jewish one neglects and leaves him.The poor silly person dies in there because of hunger and thirst. The eagles eat his carrion too.
The phoenix, had been used to visit the highland each year together with his beloved birds. At some year he brings the crow too. The crow requests to pass over the jewel mountain in order to arrive the highland, because he knows that there are some carrions over it. Phoenix says ok. When they reach the jewel mountain, the crow instantly settles on a carrion. The phoenix also was watching it. As the crow digs out, shits spreads to the phoenix. The Phoenix says: “The nose of one who is leaded by a crow can’t get rid of the shit.” They’re similar to those ones.
Saved : by Şevket Kutkan
EMRE’s Maxim Lines/Verses:
*All ways are towards to the conscience,
And then are handed in Merciful.
*Heart in love is the ninth heaven of Merciful.
*This is a wine of love,
Those with good morals drink.
*State which differs human from animal is,
Sorrowful sound occurred from information.
*A realm as market so much crowded,
In there each mortal walks around,
Everyone is buyer for his/her beloved,
Some buys grace some other evil.
*Notebook, libra is heart of receiver,
Pen is the eye of the responsible.
*His light is Adam, each being is lantern,
His light is constant, watches and returns.
*If you leave “the names”,
The “named one” will appear.
* My Lord, this one is such a school,
Having scriptures without syllable.
*Never say the secret someone.
Let him/her hand in testimony.
Sufic Explanations of Nasreddin Hodja Narratives
To the side where you’ve worn out your clothes!
Someone who went to Akşehir lake for full ablution, asked Hodja:
–My hodja! To which side do I need turn for full ablution?
-Hodja have replied instantly:
-To the side where you’ve worn out your clothes!
Explanation:
Our common understanding is to nibble the outer shell of the religion. By all means, nibbling doesn’t give the taste of inner side. For example, we assume that ablution just consists of wetting our face and hand. For this reason, we had been discussing either to move or not the ring during ablution, many years long.
Although, our prophet has declared the aim of ablution as; “cleaning is result of faith”.
Likewise, is there any relation of those prays which we pray in just one minute so fast (as being followed by a horseman) with the goal of being before God?
That shows while we are performing prays (which we assume just consist of the formal movements), or understanding the religious rules, we are being far from the wisdom of them.
So, Hodja Nasreddin tries to tell us (who don’t aware that all of the religious rules and prayings depend on a reasonable cause) it’s better to look at the stealable cloth during ablution, to prevent the theft. Because the aim of full ablution is to get rid of dirts instead of turning to some side. The one who became naked, can’t even pray anymore.