The Inner Source Digest – Unit: 19

May 1959
Issue: 19
EMRE’s Conversations: 19

(This conversation has happened in İstanbul at 25.3.1959. The questioner is a sheikh with the name Father Şevket with long, black hair and moustache. His job is hairdressing. )

Q- I am looking for a fisherman. 

Emre – If we can’t find a fisherman, we can find a Godman instead.  In order to do this, it’s only needed to dive into the sea.

Q. – I’m afraid.

Emre – “Traitor afraids” : lets not to afraid.

Q.- Don’t be stingy, tell me.

Emre – All of the creatures are being walked to the human. Moons and stars also are in love with human. Sun also is circling around us. The one who is bonded God without ritual and condition will be saved. Salvation is in a state without pride, vanity and highness. When a human who says “I am great, I am sheik or something  “ and sees himself higher than the other people, then comes torment.

We will be saved if we look down on us and love everyone without conditioning of nation. Tariq also ties down. Member of a tariq is also stranded. Upon leaving it too, pleasure comes. Ego is torment. The real wisdom for human is to forget himself/herself.  If the sheik which is the human resigned into his hands, during his telling the words of truth to his disciples, hears the words that he says, I mean if he is not submitted to God and forget himself/herself, those words of sheik has hypocrisy. If you love a human which is in hypocrisy, you start to be like him. Because love is bonding. Love is both mastery and conviction.

In this way which we will follow, our measure must be Koran and the state of The Prophet Mohammed. Our each action must beseem with him.

If our way is dwelled on a specific understanding and belief, this is whirl. The place which is called Arasat is a place which we like and stick.  Although each way and each moment has an ahead.

But this way can’t be achieved without a guide. Although this guide must be a humble one who had been absent in God. The human who had been absent in God, belongs to everyone just like the sun. Because of this, such people discriminate neither religion nor denomination. One of the names of God is “Lord of the Realms”. He is not the Lord of Muslim’s, knowers, wise’s, Jewish’s, but everyone. Does sun differentiate the things. It shines both sea and carrion. The sun admires the things of sky; it watches them by spinning. The sun can’t see darkness, because it can’t see the other side of things.

Q. – So what, did we see or not?

Emre – The things we saw will be seen, the things we didn’t see will be unseen. If we can see, we will be lost in the thing we saw. But the drop at the land can’t see The Sea; only the one which participate can see. The one at the land is convicted to dry.

Q. – We eat, drink, wander.

Emre – We will eat, drink but never wander. We are living in a phenomenal realm. This body needs food. In this age of civilisation and in the realm of civilisation we will eat, drink and beside we will work hard. We will try to support the livelihood of the ones which left behind, because they are our followers. We will not be lazy like the past dervishes, members of dervish lodges; we will work. The Prophet Mohammed said “the one who works is the lover of God”. Did he said this for nothing? If we belong to his ummah, we have to obey his remark, the bird with one wing, can’t fly.

Q. – What if it flies?

Emre – It won’t be like that, sir. If it flies, it becomes bird. Can an animal realize the truth?

Q. – What about the one who doesn’t realize the truth, who doesn’t believe?

Emre – The unbeliever is also right. If everyone knew God, the system of realm would be destroyed.

Q. – Isn’t there the possibility for everyone?

Emre – There isn’t. Even God, despite of his being unique, says that He has 1001 labels. He shared his labels with us.

Q. – Did He shared Himself?

Emre – Yes. But those 1001 labels are the attributes of Him. The Self of Him is a different realm. He can’t be understood by description. In Adana, medlar is not known. Even if it’s put before sight,  it can’t be recognized. It’s necessary to see it. Could I know you before I met even they told me as Father Şevket? Now we talked, met and I know you as Father Şevket.

Some day someone has brought a box of honey to our prophet. He says “The Prophet Mohammed, I brought a box of honey; could you please accept? “The Prophet Mohammed accepts and ask the people in community: “what is this in box?” Everybody answers as honey. He says “no, you didn’t know” then he asks Hazrat Ali “what is this? “ Ali opens the cap, tastes with finger and answers: “honey, sir”.  The Prophet Mohammed says ; “That’s it, now just Ali knew. You also knew but not as much as him. He had relished. “ For this reason, first of all,  judge is for the appearance. It’s being transferred from exoteric to the esoteric, not the reverse. If the outside(exoteric)  is not fixed, the inside (esoteric) is not manifested. All of the conditionings must be terminated. Conditioning is ego; that’s called the devil.

Q. – What is the conscience? Please show me the right way.

Emre – Conscience is the home of God but if we purified and burnished. In order to purify, it’s needed to begin with the orders of him; it’s needed to handle them.

Q. – Where is God? What’s the color of Him?

Emre – It’s needed to avoid of His color.

Q. – Does He has mouth and tooth?

Emre – He has everything. Every mouth and tooth belongs to Him.

Q. – Hold my arm, cut it.

Emre – We aren’t here to cut. We came here to love.

Q. – Don’t deny, please cure my tooth. 

 Emre – Its cure is to have out of it. If you have toothacke, you need to go to the dentist and have out your tooth.

Q. – You are the one who gave the tooth and toothacke. Don’t make me wander, remove it from here.

Emre – In order to do this, unresistance is needed. If we are talking about tooth, first of all you have to sit on the chair of dentist. He gives an injection, you must wait for a while. Maybe during this job, your tooth will be broken, you need to stand so the dentist can have out it with claw.

Q. – So, I need to stand, isn’t it?

Emre – Yes, of course. Doesn’t it hurt during the removal of our bad tempers, habits just like the pain occured while our tooth is having out? Even this is much harder. In order to have out of our tooth of temper, we need to make tear our bossom.

Q. – Since we are eating, drinking, talking, that means I am useless.

Emre – Noo, don’t say this.

Q. – I have an apple but you have the smaller one. I am glad to have the bigger one; we are human beings. This job is hard while having the character of humanity. I become sad when I meet a hungry people.

Emre – First of all we have to deal with ourselves. We will not interfere to anyone’s state. Also, what can we do? Which one will you fix? God knows better than us. He gave it because of the necessity. If you don’t like the actions of God, fire of torment begins to burn us. If we connive His actions, we can be absent in Him. Otherwise it’s not possible.

Q. – What must we do in order to connive?

Emre – We will not interfere to anyone.

Q. –What must we do in order to throw pride?

Emre – Contemplation.

Q. – What must we do in order to obtain harmony?

Emre – But we see nothing in this realm without harmony…

Q. – We just say it but we can’t execute it as an action.

Emre –So, what can we do?

Q. – Spill the beans either through my mouth or yours.

Emre – The Prophet Mohammed also was trying to make muslim all ones. God said to him: “ You Mohammed, resignation of the ones whom you invited must be first of all from himself/herself, then from you and after all from me. This is the way for him/her to settle down.”  If one doesn’t resign himself/herself even the prophets can do nothing.   

Q. – May you tear the vail of secret and show me light as much as pinprick; I am blind.

Emre – If I see you as blind, I am blind. There is nothing, noone which is blind. Everyone has a knowledge in his/her own way.

Q. You create gazelle and then you throw away it to the forest.

Emre –Is it me?

Q. – You watch it from distance, you have joy…

Emre – Who does it, is it me? Who throws, is it me? I am asking.

Q- …….

Emre – The One who throws the gazelle, also loves it. He loves both the gazelle and the following hound.

Q. – You shoot when the gazelle makes an error.

Emre – He has right. Because one of the labels of Him is rogue. If you assume it from me, than you need to connive.

Q. – Hear is the gazelle. If you grew, then shot and eat.

Emre – (turning to the listeners) He has right. I must eat so he becomes me.

Q. – You say “come” then you say “why did you come”? Treacher! I say “cut my arm”, you don’t.

Emre – How can I sacrifice my body?

Q. – You give order to the universe as “manage me” then you don’t allow the management. You judge the killer of universe for the reason of this action.

Emre – All of the harmful things can be killed. But we don’t kill the others which isn’t harmful.

Q. – Then you smack.

Emre – I do not.

Q. – Spill the beans from your mouth. Do you hesitate? Did you take away me from this community?

Emre – God forbid! He never gives up even from a particule. Kids embroider. How they love this embroidery because of their effort. Do they throw this embroidery?

(During this time when Father Şevket was trying to magnetize Emre with his keen eyes; Emre also responded him with his strong and keen eyes. Then Father Şevket started to cry with this effect, uttering some voices like the whistle of the wind through his lips. When this state left him slowly, the revelations was being read during this silence and Father Şevket was listening with all ears. Between the others read,  he insisted on repeating this revelation specially:                                                                                               

(After reading this revelation, the conversation began again):

Q. – Now may you be generous and tell this before time, open my eye.

Emre – There is no time or something. There is nothing other than a forever moment. When we wake up, neither time nor space remains.

Q. – Can’t we do “word play”even if it is preterm?

Emre – What was saying in a revelation?

Emre – There is an acrobat playing in concourse. We can save if we find Him and understand that we’re the shadows of Him. I myself understood that I’m a shadow.

Q. – We don’t have right to talk not a bit. But He makes us talk, why?

Emre – This is an invitation to Himself in order to make us hear. There is no separation for both the ones who hear and who don’t.

Q. – I can’t hear.

Emre – Being able to confess and say this,  is a great bravery. Since God is paraclete of sinners, we trust Himself. The great prophet Mohammed said “I didn’t know” , what can we do?

Q. – He says “don’t complain”, he makes me complain.

Emre – Don’t complain. The hardest growing one is the human baby. Animals grow fast. It’s hard for the human baby to born, it requires patience. You also must be patient.

Q. – If we don’t see the manifestation, we are blind.

Emre –God forbid! God forbid!

Q. – He says “see me in everywhere you look at”.

Emre – We had a friend who was a knower. I had knelt before him many times. In some duration he always had been saying “I” . In that time there was a man called “mad Patata” . Some day this friend asks mad Patata “ how can I see God?” . Mad gives him a mirror and says: “look at the inside of it”. The friend looks. Mad asks: “who is inside?” Wise man says “it’s me”. Mad says “alas, if you exist in it, where can you see God? “. Just like the mad man said,  God doesn’t accept duality. There are someones who are saying that “I am God”  . They do this by means of the interpretation of hadith according to their wish of self which says: “the one who knows his/her self, also knows God. “ They are directly profane. God forbid! The mortal can never become God. We are the mortals, God is God. But, in some cases God surrenders the loyal mortals, He sees through their eye, says through their mouth. But they can’t stay in the same state. If this state remains continuously, the system of realm is destroyed.

It isn’t right to interfere the actions of God, to see them wrong. In a farm, there are all type of animals. Which one of them is fired by the the owner of the farm? He needs both dog and horse. If we look from the eye of the farmer, all of them are necessary. It’s needed to interfere the heart of God, instead of His action.

Q. – Those definitions aren’t the real definition.

Emre – I swear, it depends on the level of possibility and reason.

Q. – What’s the vail of secret?

Emre –There is no vail or something on the face of God. Vail is in our heart and eye.

Q. – Our tongue isn’t able to tell Him.

Emre – If we hand in our tongue to Him, that’s it! I don’t complain. Whatever He is doing, it’s good.

Q. – I do have complaint.

Emre – Come on, write down a chaier and bring it.

Q. – May you favour preterm.

Emre – You must bring two witnesses.

Q. – I want you spill the beans preterm and convince me.

Emre – I’m really trying to convince you. Let the pleasure to come! Don’t care about the others. (pointing the attendees) Just look at their faces, it’s enough.

Q- I sometimes blow a trumpet; but I don’t trumpet to you. I don’t complain from you. I just complain from me and Sheikh Galip.

Emre – Neither Sheikh Galip nor you nor me exist. God exists.

Q. – But there is wandering, because we are the human beings.

Emre – There is nothing other than God. When I get out of myself, revelation reveals. In one of those revelations it’s been said: “ There is neither comer nor goer”

Q. – Thanks Him, God brought us to the rose garden of this community. I wish He doesn’t avert us. What does He loose in saying the secret preterm?

Emre – God forbid! It’s against His glory.

Q. –So,  why does He getting tired?

Emre – He doesn’t tires. If we break up Him, we get tired. When He sees that we have a fault, defect, He separates us from Himself,  throws away and wither.

At the same time, God has much grace. He says with respect to the capacity of human. If one who is worshipping cross comes here, we also worship cross in order to love him/her.

Q. – He had given this opposition to us.

Emre – He doesn’t give; we had liked and received this state. He gives medicine according to our prescription.

Q. – So, is it our responsibility?

Emre – Of course, if we exist, the greatest responsibility is this existence of us which is separate from God.

Q. – I wish I could be able to love myself as much as you love me.

Emre – No, don’t love yourself! Does one loves his/her enemy?

Emre –  Is Koran right?

Q. –  Yes

Emre – In that case, Koran says  “kill your ego” . Does it say if our ego isn’t the enemy of us? If we are saying I, then we have to afraid of it. But if God is saying through our mouth while we don’t hear,  this is another subject. In that case saying of “I” becomes true.  You are always in the opposition side. There is no end for those oppositions.

At one time a sultan, because of his boredom orders the ones around him to tell a long story as an unending one. Noone could do this. A dervish says “I can do this job.” They ask: “how can you do?”. He replies: “Don’t interfere, it’s not your business. “ They bring the dervish near the sultan. He asks: “Are you the one who will tell the unending story?” He says “yes, I will tell”. Sultan says “well, if so,  begin to tell.” Dervish starts: “ My father was the tentmaker. There was a big tree in the yard of our house. When the evening had come, all of the birds in the world were settling on this tree. One day my father made a tent suitable for this tree. I helped him. When the evening came and the birds started to settle on the tree, my father slipped the tent on the tree. Tent was something like a bag. When it is puckered from the bottom, all of the birds in this World remained in the tent. Then morning came. So the birds need to go out to find their food. My father opened a hole just for a sparrow can pass. In that hole a sparrow flied saying pırr; another sparrow flied saying pırr; another sparrow flied saying pırr… Sultan realizes that this job has no end or middle, says “ok. this man is successful; give him what he wants from the treasure and let him go”. They say “my Sultan, how did he made satisfy you?” He said, “my son, first he made settle all of the birds in world on a tree, and opened a hole. Then he began with sparrows; they all flied saying “pırr” one by one… Is there any end of those “pırr”s? Who knows how many years are necessary in order to make fly all of the sparrows in world? Then comes the starling, dove, nightingale, eagle. Does it finish?”

Q. – With the permission of God, I hope it will finish with a definition.

Emre – If it’s said “let’s define”, it won’t. We need to try to define.

Q. – Lets try to define the definition…

Emre – Lets not to split hairs, lets depend on one hair.

Q. –May He favour.

Emre – It’s not suitable for His glory. The one who favours is sentenced to his/her ego. Lets forget the wish to find and be silent. “The perfect ones found the perfection with silence.” The Prophet Mohammed says: “Eat less, sleep less, talk less”.

There had been a philosopher who is a friend of Diogenes either Socrates or Platon. This philosopher had been frequently saying to Diogenes “ lets mediate the knowledge to the people”.  Diogenes had said “I couldn’t finish the science of incapacity; how can I teach the knowledge?”  Then they had been splitted. Diogenes had gone away from the city. He had been coming to the city one day in each forty days. One day Diogenes had been getting through the garden of Platon (lets say so) which is near the city. Platon, hiding himself says to his butler “if Diogenes wants fruit from you, give him a full of basket “. Diogenes sees that there are fine apricots, he wants an apricot from the gardener. The gardener fills a full of basket and gives him. Diogenes says to the gardener; “ you are just like your master; while one needs just a word, he says thousands of them. I just demanded one apricot but you gave me a full of basket.”

The word of truth is just one but the pot which is full can’t receive water. But we are all like this…       I mean I swear we don’t belittle you. I couldn’t see someone who is smaller than me. If we owe lie and hypocracy we become devil. The truth is made up this.

Q. – May you define for the ones lack of understanding.

Emre – Not at all, we don’t see like this. Everyone had been created with the same understanding level. In a case we fall in love a beautiful woman and go to the near of her, instead of looking her face with admiration if we look at the gold on her neck thinking of stealing it, does she love us? She doesn’t love, she hates; because we’ve infringed on her existance. But if we love, give ourselves to her, everything will belong to us.

Q. – May you supply me a key. How the lover said the revelations, how much effort he gave… But my camera can’t capture.

Emre – I’m not the one who is saying those revealtions. The sayer said for the God’s consent.

Q. – I wish I’ll be able to understand this language.

Emre – We understand; because it’s been saying in our language which is understandable. It’s not Arabic.

Q. – Play it by my ear.

Emre – Give a kiss…

Q. – May you be a contact in order to arrive The Prophet Mohammed.

Emre – Forget about this contact… If you need to arrive Mohammed, lets give importance to fondness; love and be loved. That’s the key.

Q- I am infertile.

Emre – Love me as much as I love you, that’s the key.

Q- I love but this love is in my language.

Emre – Forget about these; they have no end. If you pull the ear of cat, it wauls; nightingale sings like a nightingale. Human has all of the animal attributes. A character will be master according to the choise preferred. It’s better to leave that animal attribute and have the character of human.

Q. –We’re infertile in action.  

Emre – Everybody has his/her own action. We need not to deal with the actions of others. We have to deal with ourselves. Beside we need to get rid of those types of thoughts, objections and be saved.

Q. – Who can get rid off?

Emre – If we relay on Him, He helps us. Doesn’t he help us if we find our tutor?

Q. – I’m infertile, I’m infertile.

Emre – You aren’t infertile.

Q. – The bottom of bucket is hole.

Emre – I don’t see the bottom as hole. If you are saying  “the bottom of my bucket is hole” without hypocracy, I am saying to you that the bottom is not hole.

Q. – The one who makes speak is you.

Emre – If it’s so, the bottom isn’t hole.

Q. – If it’s so, let’s make me listen.

Emre – Ok. After that, you will start to contemplate. But we will forget our knowledge.

Q. – (Just like singing) I’m the baton of herders, the bucket of carrier.

Emre – Ok, if you regard those attributes suitable for you, what can we say? But we don’t prefer this state of you.

Q – Give me the key; anyway; hand in the key to me.

Emre – If we hand in, you’ll leave the door open. If God gives the knowledge of Him, the mortals mess up it.

Q. – Doesn’t He give it to the competent?

Emre – If he is competent, He gives. A lot of prophets had come; they had discriminated illicit and permissible by saying that (this action is good, this is bad) . What if we incriminate all of our bad action to God?…

                (This conversation will continue)

                                        EMRE’s Epigrams, Aphorisms:

*Emre – The ones with goggle eye of moral, sees the people as evil. Although everything is fine as it is. Many of them, while being in the beginning state, underestimates the people. Do you reject your child because of his/her fault? God also doesn’t reject His mortals.

*Emre – Speaking according to the beginners is not hypocracy. This is for his/her sake. If you say the truth as it is, he/she can’t digest, vomits. The Prophet Mohammed had also been said: “tell the people as much as they can understand”.

*Emre – When human gets rid of himself/herself, can’t pass any other place. Therefore, the whirling dervishes don’t fell woozy. 

*Emre –Connection is something like to turn on the switch. In order to get light, you don’t need to connect the factory; but you can get it through the edge of wire.

*Emre – Talented ones are like the bee and untalented ones are like the fly. Bee and fly have the same structure but one of them products honey and the other transfers dirt and sickness.

*Emre – If you curl up the ear of a cat, can you hear a voice other than “mew”? They have right too.

The Sufic Explation of Hodj Nasreddin Anectodes

                                                   What happened to the old moons?                                          

In a moony night Hodja Nasreddin had been asked:

—My hodja, this moon which is seen in the sky gives us light thirty days long. Then comes another moon with replace of it. This new moon also gives light thirty days long and disappears. We wonder what happened to the old moon when the new moon appeared?

Hodja, anwers with a meaningful smile;

—What will they do? They make the stars by clipping them.

Explanation

The moon in this anectode is the spiritual being or a Mature Human who gives light to our spiritual night of knowledge and morality. This mature human who is absent in God, gives and shares all of his/her material and spiritual being to the spiritual children. After his/her material sight have been disappeared, he/she lives also in their hearts and eyes. Ayway the ones in all of the sufic books and the referent in Koran as the word of “star” are the eyes of the Mature One. This truth is told in a revelation like this:         

In another revelation it’s been said: