April 1959
Issue: 18
EMRE’s Conversations: 18
(Notes that can be saved from the conversation at 31.5.1958)
Q.- In the Inner Source Digest you have been saying that the healing of illnesses will be possible by means of stars in recent future. Will it be through the light?
Emre – Yes. The light of a star will heal an illness and the others’ will heal another illness. Even the lights of stars will be used as fertilizer. This whole universe have been serving to the earth.
Q. – Can’t those jobs be done with sun?
Emre – No. Actually they are the lights of sun but the properties of sunlights change after they’ve interacted with the stars.
Q. – Can’t it be without a mediator?
Emre – It can not be. From where the cow takes the butter? From the grass. Human also obtains oil from the vegetables. But is this vegetable oil useful as much as the butter? The starlights are also different from the sun light.
In future so many strange things will happen. They will put some things like atom or something in bottles and bury them in some places of the fields. In this way they will grow the vegetables faster. They will have such progression that they will levitate those houses, apartments in sky with a little power.
Q. – The subject of progression is something like innate; it’s not for everyone.
Emre – In subject of progression everybody has the same ability. The Prophet Mohammed says “all beings are born in Islam as innate”. Things which cause the people leaving behind are the colors of morality which are served by their environment. The innate virtues are being destroyed by those colors.
Q. – Let’s assume that there are twenty students in a class. One of them understands perfect what the teacher said, the others’ understanding is according to their level.
Emre – There is an effect of innate but there is also a might which can change the innate; that ‘s love. The ones who can listen their teacher are the lovers, the others can’t listen. So, if everybody were similar to each other, there would be no taste of this realm.
Q. – Everybody has a different ability and tendency of something.
Emre – Otherwise the system of the universe would be destroyed. As a matter of fact of the truth, the mind is like a child despite of how intelligent it is. The mind looks for a beginning and an end in order to be comfort. But God has neither a beginning nor an end.
Q. – As you said, the subject circles around and ends in searching the creativity of The Creator that means God, but He can’t be found.
Emre – In order to find, it’s needed to loose himself/herself. Somehow he/she looses himself/herself while thinking, crying, mourning. The greatest job of human being is to loose himself/herself there.
Q. – I see God in this flower in full.
Emre – You see the attribute of Him in that flower.
Q. – But this flower can’t be created by a human. There is undoubtedly, a creator. But where is the God of God? I will stop and I will realize my humanity there Mr. İsmail.
Emre –The Prophet Mohammed, gathered 99 names of God. One of them is Mighty. Can the flower and human be compared? The flower has no might. It always need human. You seed the flower it can’t seed, can’t grow you. Human is so grand who is honored by God’s Himself, the flower is only an attribute.
Q. –I think the whole subject is to be able to see the might of God in nature.
Emre – Yes but you can only see the attributes of God in nature, not Himself.
Q. – If I were inspanned, could I carry this carriage? However the horse only eats grass but can carry the carriage. I eat a lot of things but can’t carry the carriage. I can understand the grandness of God thinking about those matters.
Emre – Yes, but can you understand?… God’s Himself manifests from human, His attributes manifest from animals and plants. Only flower can be risen by a flower; but everything emerges from human. That means human is capable of doing everything.
Q. – Anyway God’s self isn’t seen.
Emre – Can be seen!
Q. – Can be seen but not exactly. Because He is beyond the qualities of matter. But he is ubiquitous everywhere. When human sees the might in flower, recognizes the existance of God.
Emre – If you were able to see your own might, you would give up the flower. Human is very beautiful.
God comes out where there remains no word, manner. In there human becomes absent. The human coming from there can’t say the words here which belong to there. He/she can only say to the ones who are united with him/her. This job can be executed by means of love; there is no word or pen of it.
There is a knowledge which is called as “the innate science”. It changes our knowledge. It has been told about Gabriel; an angel with wings. The Innate Science tells us the truth of Gabriel. The word is same but it’s in different meaning. Hearing causes doubt, doubt can only be removed by seeing.
We can’t see His Self by our own eyes, ears. We can’t understand His words.
Yunus Emre says:
| Ben çıkınca aradan Kalır beni Yaradan. | When I fade from the scene, My Creator is the one remains. |
Manifestation starts after this, I mean just after we fade from the scene. When the fruit is in view it can’t be tasted. Just after eating, when it has been out of view, then its taste is transferred to our mouth and mind. It’s easy to say but so hard to understand. We can’t hear if we say “this is my ear”.
Q. – I want to learn something more from you: In the subject of “Fatiha”, you said “I used to say Fatiha many times before, then I realised that the prophets don’t need my Fatiha “. Is this absurd to say Fatiha?
Emre – No, it’s not absurd. With this remark I’ve intended to say that “the ones who need to understand the meaning of Fatiha are ourselves, not the prophets. They already know the meaning. “
Q. –The Prophet Mohammed is our guide. He is in charge of illuminating us. How can be grateful for the divine light we received from him. How can we memorialise him?
Emre – By means of being in love, loving him.
Q. – If you recognise, you will also love. Ok, how can you show your love?
Emre – How does our individual mind recognise him?
Q. – As a prophet.
Emre – Where is he now? How such a might is He?
Q. – He has an impress: Islam.
Emre – That’s it! You see, we don’t like himself but his impress. Isn’t The Prophet Mohammed our guide?
Q. – Yes.
Emre – Is guide forward or backward?
Q. – We couldn’t agree.
Emre – No, we agreed.
Q. – I don’t reject the highness of The Prophet Mohammed. I want to understand the subject of Fatiha. For example let’s assume I’m executing the rituals for God’s sake. How can I deliver my responsibility for His Prophet? I mean how can I remember him at least once a day.
Emre –Just say (Lâilâhe illallah).
Q. – It’s not right Mr. İsmâil.
Emre – The Prophet Mohammed don’t need our Fâtiha.
Q. – Even the other deads too… Because they already have been reached the mercy of The Gracious. Where are their souls now? And in which form they became embodied, I’m unaware. For sure God’s mercy takes in more than my pray. If they would be close to God with the mercy which I will say…
Emre – So we agreed. You are saying the remarks which I will say.
Q. – But anyway Fâtiha is necessary for the dead ones.
Emre – (by knocking to his chest with his tip of fingers) Yes, for the dead ones like us.
Q. – I disagree with you for the form of Fatiha. I say Fatiha once a day. But not for his/her necessity; just for a religious thankfulness.
Emre – This what we try to tell.
Q. – Am I wrong?
Emre – Ok. If you understand the symbol, it’s ok.
Q. –Nowadays, in France it’s been talked about everywhere. It’s about three million pilgrim who came to the city of Lourd. They say there can be 7-8 million people more to come. In this city each company try to host them.
In March of 1850 Saint Mary had been seen by a herdsgirl (herder girl). Girl couldn’t understand anything. She says and describes to the priests what she saw: “A soft spoken women who dressed all white, with blue belt on her waist. “The priests say her “if she comes again, you must quest her name”. When she saw her any other time, asks her name. The ghost says “I am The Saint Virgin; the women who had a baby without marrying. Say the priests to dig this cave; they will obtain some water which will help healing.” So, they did what she said; really there was some water. After this time many blinds, palsieds, tuberculars, epileptics, the ones with scrofula had been entering this water and then healing. In there there has been a special praying: They open their arms and pray just like crusifixus. In that state, the sick ones had been healing. The scientist can’t explain this to the people.
Emre – This was the position of Hazrat Jesus; to heal the ills, to open the eyes of blinds. But The Prophet Mohammed healed our mental, egoic ilnesses.
Let’s assume the eyes of a blind is opened; so won’t this man die again? Won’t the eyes fill with earth? However The Prophet Mohammed have used to open the inner eyes of the people. So, those eyes which are opened in this way, never becomes closed. In order to tell this, he says “the believers never die”. The ones who see him, never die after that. Similar to the death of body, the blind eye also dies one day, but the spirituality doesn’t die.
Q. – You say “dream is vision”. Dream menifests in various states. Some dreams are the commands given by God or the prophet. Human body receives this command because he/she is ready in fulll assimilation.
I’ve read ten years ago: There has been a Sultan in Damascus. Our prophet had said him in his dream: “They’re dirtying my grave; come and save me quickly from those filthies. “ Sultan wakes up hastily and orders: “ My horses must be ready urgently”; then he goes to Medina directly. Our prophet had shown him the identities of the filthies before. Sultan with the aid of cover of relieve, make all of the people come by him but he can’t see the ones he saw in his dream. He asks: “Isn’t there any other ones in city?” They say ”there are two more Jewishes.“ They call up them also. Sultan says: “That’s it, they are the ones!” In fact, those two Jewishes had dirtied the grave. Sultan orders the grave to be cleaned.
Emre – Dream is a strange realm. This Sultan saw this dream because of his love for The Prophet Mohammed. In order to understand the truth of dream, if one tries self-denial and forgets to sleep then he would have many dreams and visions while pacing in real life.
Q. – In those books I’ve seen, there are a lot of definitions of dreams. Some books also expresses the dream. If you see that thing, it means this, like that. This is attribution of meaning. Some dreams manifests in full. We will call them rescript. For example like Barbaros’s dream about victory of Preveze.
Emre- …….
Q. – I’ve read the revelations with admiration. First explanation is, this comes from the divine grace. The second, according to the western knowledge this depends on metamorphose. I mean reincarnation. (Turning to the people around) Gentleman was a great poem and philosopher in his previous life and he had died by maturing his own specialities. His spirit is so progressed, he is saying through his previous specialities without needing to excite his brain in recent body. The one who is saying is his spirit not himself. Those remarks are not from his mind, brain. Those revelations are the manifestations of spirit which is the divine light in this reincarnation.
Emre- …….
Q. – Your discussion with the priest was great. The priest couldn’t look at your eyes. If you wouldn’t have this might, you couldn’t say “I dare you!”.
Emre – I wasn’t the one who said.
Q. – How could it be? How would you show?
Emre – By means of faith.
Q. – I see. By means of transferring undulation. Divine Might either gives through magnetization directly or without needing this, by means of undulation. Transmission of thoughts. I understood. You had to force the priest.
Emre – He didn’t look.
Q. – If I were you, I would stand against him.
Emre – He didn’t deserve.
Q. – You said the Priest was knower; but actually he has been ignorant. He didn’t understand what he read. He exposes the ignorance of The Prophet Mohammed. The one lampoons such that, has no knowledge.
Emre – If he had strong knowledge, he would be Muslim.
(The notes which can be saved from a conversation at 17.4.1959):
Q. – Does each person have the ability to enter the way of God?
Emre – If there is no genetical illness, everybody has this ability. He is calling us from various mouths because of the our given ability of walking in this way. He says “come to me using the ability which I gave to you. “
The people are spending this ability in other ways instead of this path. But if there remains a spark of this ability, it again grows and at the end it will be delivered to God.
Q. – Is God an abstract being? Someone says : “God is under my robe. “ Some others say different things. What must we think while saying God? If I believe in this for sure, the others will be solved after that.
Emre – When we say God, it’s necessary to forget thinking. If it’s not the time, one hears neither what he/she said, nor listen. May you go on the way you choose.
Q. – You say “God is in our heart”. We only can have the love for Him. Can Himself also reside in our heart?
Emre – The ones surrounding everthing are His attributes. Not Himself. He surrounds everything including the bacterias. Everything has a life. Is iron dead? It has water, air spaces, lives which don’t burn with fire. These are all attributes. Himself manifests from human. From whom? From the one who is being like moths to a flame. Moth admires the fire of candle, it throws itself to this fire and burns. The mind thinks that it burned and died. It has died but revived in where? In light. Could we able to tell? It can’t be understood if time didn’t come.
Q. – In previous revelation it’s said: “Now I am The One who decides on Emre”.
Emre – This sayer Might can say what He wants.
Q. – Did He manifested from The prophet Mohammed?
Emre – He did.
Q. – After that, where did He go?
Emre –He is now surrounding us. That light surrounds everyone. But its center, source is burning by force.
Q. – My mind can’t comprehend it.
Emre – If it is so, then we give it to Him. His mind is wide so He can comprehend. Anyway the truth is behind the helplessness. Sheik Hasan al-Baghdadi says; “One knocks many times the door of Truth, on the last case, the door is opened when he/she is weakened.” He is so right. This way is the way of mind. There is another way; out of mind. I mean you forget both the knowledge and God, then love a face, some day you also forget yourself.
Q. – I wish we could be like this.
Emre – This is so easy.
Q. – Forgive me my sir, I’m burning inside.
Emre – Be worse than this.
Q. – I can’t understand the unification of God with His creation.
Emre – God is being unified all of us but we understand this when we loose our feelings. Then there remains no separation. I am looking at you, you are looking at me. May you forget me and I forget you, that’s it. Let’s catch this experience. This experience knows, sees itself. Lets get out of the interface, and let the one seeing stays on the stage.
Q. – Sulaiman Chalabi is saying that God is in sky or something.
Emre – He says that in order to point the highness of Him. The skies can’t take God but human can. The muralist of the realm had created the universe and human something like a model.
Q. – When the mind couldn’t proceed, Refref carries. Maybe, that’s love.
Emre – Trance, trance. Trance is the maturation of love.
Q. – Maybe his saying Refref is absurd…
Emre – It’s not absurd, it’s a symbol. Each word is similar to a case. This case is opened by the key of wisdom and love. For example if we would have Mevlid, we could explaind the symbols of it.
Q. – For example Burak. He didn’t eat and drink till to the Ascension. Gabriel had said to him: “Come, you will reach your goal.”
Emre – Burak is the body of The Prophet Mohammed.
Q. – Finally in Mevlid, God and The Prophet Mohammed are talking as separate, face to face.
Emre – He tells us in this way till to some level of understanding.
When I was working in Railways, there was a man who is entirely white. Because of his sight was weak, he was chugging. But he was talking so good. I’ve asked him “uncle, why can’t you see well? “ He said “I’ve been a soldier in Yemen many years. Sunshine over there defected my sight, for this reason I can’t see well. “ There had been a upland in Yemen which is near the shore. Everywhere had been desert, sand. He had become friend with the chiefs of tribes. One of them said him “lets come to the upland with us this year”. He was major in army. He requested allowance for one month from İstanbul. They gave one month permit. They went to the upland. He was telling: “ We went to the upland. It was at the top of a mountain. There was no sand, just trees. Sheik has a lot of children. Sometimes he rides camel to go to the shore. I don’t ask where he goes. Someday he took binocs in order to look at the sea. He gave the binocs to me and said “take it, you too look” . I looked, there was great threshings near the shore. They were trying to find something from the sea, and throwing them to it. He asked : “Do you know what are they? “ I said “I don’t know. “ These are the threshings of mussel. Ships come to buy them. Lets go. We went. Camels were so fast, without shaking us. When we reached, there was a bad smell. Sheik’s doughters, grand children were among the ones who collect the mussels. We stayed there one day. A ship came. They sold the mussels by auction, for high price. There were mussels as big as hand. The color of pearls were depending on the color of mussel, light aerial.
There were blue beads on feet of girls who is collecting mussels. Blue bead was much valuable in there. Even I’ve brought blue beads as present for the children of sheik from İstanbul. I said to Sheik “what if those children wear pearl on their neckles?” He said: “shut up, don’t let them hear. If they understand the value of pearl, they wear the good ones, the bed ones remain to sale. “
The truth is just like this.
Q. – So, they are cheating us with blue bead.
Emre – No, people are like that. They don’t search God; just they have some wishes. Money, houri, gilman, goal of heaven, solutions to escape from hell… Where are the ones who is searching God? Why I remembered this story? In Mevlit, it has been said:
| Âmine Hâtûn, Muhammed ânesi, Ol Sadeften doğdu ol Dürdânesi) | “The mother of Mohammed, Âmine, Pearl borned from the mother of pearl. |
This is the law of it. Some day Mr. Abdülbâki asked about someone: “does he have essence of Mohammed? Can he able to progress?” How can I say no, he can’t. I stayed in silence. He asked again and again. I remained in silence again. Then he said “I see. “
Q. – My head is so thick, it can’t receive.
Emre – Not at all. The fruits which are useful and valuable like coconut are covered with a thick shell.
Asking is something like a lamp for this path.
Q. – What will I ask, if I didn’t understand? I can’t understand, I have some ideas in my mind, maybe they are ridiculous for you.
Emre – No, we lough for pleasure. Derision never enters from this door.
Q. – God forbid! I didn’t mean it. I shame to ask. I think it is strange. Is there a beginning for the creation of human.
Emre – There isn’t.
Q. – Ok, what about Adam or the others?
Emre – Adam is born yesterday. There are many things which mind can understand or can’t. Mind is a child; it can’t comfort without finding a beginning and an end.
Q. – I’ve asked from Hüsnü the day before, he said to ask you. Isn’t there life in stars?
Emre – There is.
Q. – Do they also have the prophets?
Emre – Their prophets also are being informed from here.
Q. – Wheras earth is smaller than the other stars and sun. Why is it so?
Emre – Which one is bigger heart or body?
Q. – Body.
Emre – Earth is just like this. It is the heart of the universe. Heart is a small thing but it sends blood to whole body. All of the stars and suns are serving to the earth. Earth is the one which distributes everything to them.
Q. – When we were talking to our manager, we mentioned about qutb. I said to him “no one awares, qutb is in Adana. “ Believe me I don’t say this as hypocricy, I say because of my love for you. Everybody is educating by means of hungering, self-denial but you are doing edutainment by loughing. I believe in your highness.
Emre – You’re welcome, it’s your highness.
Q. – Neither Muhiddîn, nor the others aren’t in the same level with you. Unhappily I can’t drink from this kawthar.
Emre – Do you believe me? Is this information occured by itself? When those things occur? They occur when it is arrived to the top. You are just like this.
Q. – We had come to visit you at vineyard at the last day of eid-qurban. I’ve asked you : “Does God change the system of the realm for His beloved human beings?” You said: “He does.” I said: “Why didn’t rain? “ You said: “It rains.” But we went to Yenice leaving our beds at the roof. Because we thought that it will rain the next day. While we were in Yenice, it rained. All of the beds had been watery. Just like the day you said “it rains”, I want to hear the word from your mouth as a spiritual grace on me. I believed in your higness.
Emre – It’s your highness.
Q. – Will I able to rectify my state one day?
Emre – We are saying already… One day you will give up rakı. We don’t want you to drink rakı but your drinking rakı is better than most of the others’ praying by rosary till to the morning.
Niyazî says:
Taşra üfürmek ile yalınlanır mı ocak? Can fireplace blaze by means of blowing out?
Saved by: Şevket Kutkan
EMRE’s anectodes, jokes, instantaneous answers:
*Emre – Inspiration is for the community behind the imam I mean fot the living deads instead of the dead one.
*Emre – Real business is dealing with continuous prayer. I mean his /her being unite with God even in doing their jobs.
*Emre – It has been said that Koran must be read at mosque. Wheras it must have been read at cafes, taverns in order the ones in them to utilize. Because the ones who go to the mosque already listen everyday. If they utilized, it’s ok. So what if they didn’t. Koran is an advise; so an advise can be both said and listened wherever it is.
*The language of love is smiling and nice glance. There is no one who doesn’t understand this language.
*Q. – How such a coincidence is this meeting?
*Emre – Is it coincidence or will?
*Emre – The sin of the sinner has been forgiven but the sin of the one who sees the sin is not forgiven.
*Emre –In order to see the prostration of trees, I didn’t sleep till to the morning at the night of qadr maybe for twenty years. Then after a while I understood that I was the tree itself.
The one who will prostrate is the mind. For this reason we can’t blame anyone.
Sufic explanation of Nasreddin Hodja narratives
To where?
Once a day Hodja had ride on a stubborn mule; it had gone broad. Hodja had tried a lot to control it but he couldn’t be succesful. When the mule was galloping, someone homely shouted him:
—Where are you going my Hodja?
Hodja had answered:
—To where the mule wants!
Explanation:
The self of human, unless it is not educated with a divine education with the aid of a perfect one, is not different from the stubborn animal. If self takes the full control of our will, it leads us to various disasters. In this case, we are obliged to go to the same place it goes.
HodjaNasreddin when they asked, even on the mule, , wanted to give the lesson of truth and morality to the people around him using the case of mule’s running broad.