April 1958
Issue: 13
EMRE’s Conversations: 13
(Notes from the conversation at 26.01.1954:)
Emre – Everyone gets stuck on seeing his/her essence. The one who hears, starts to fall in trouble. If he/she doesn’t hear, what can an aidless do? The end of this matter is to love “The One” by “someone”. After the manifestation of this love, there appears many states which are inexpressable. This is the love which enables the one eternally alive. If you analyze Koran, you can see that its secret and essence is also this love. We were talking to Mr. Ekrem (Özhatay) just before. He knows Koran very well, better than a scholar. He said “I examined the revelations, they are exactly similar to Koran. We were used to read Koran without understanding. The secret of Koran revealed now. There are some words in revelations which contradicts the shariah, but when we find them also in Koran they gain much more value. “ then he started to cry.
Q.- We can’t understand and know Koran.
Emre – Arabs also don’t know. While reading verse of “Tebbet” they say “Allahu Ekber!”. They don’t try to understand the meaning.
Why the wife of Abu Lahab is called as “the carrier of wood” in this surah despite the fact that being the richest man of their time? They don’t wonder.
The Prophet Mohammed had wanted to tell this state “which will revive the humanity eternally” , tohis relatives also beside the other people. But Abu Lahab and his wife instead of listening in the presence of the prophet, had been accounting their goods. The Prophet Mohammed couldn’t resist because he could see their inside with his open third eye. Those words were revealed upon his unity with God.
Koran isn’t known by also the Arabs in Mecca. This is a divine secret which closes itself. But it also wants us to inquire into it from the knower and understand. And the ones who don’t cognize this secret (I mean all of us) are called “animal, maybe lower than the animal !” Because of being uncapable of understanding Koran, we can’t search the reason and wonder why it is said so. The meaning of animal in this word corresponds the lack of reason. Can an animal cognize? An animal can only see the outside, it can’t conceive the inside. Ego is also an animal so it can only understand the outside of Koran, I mean outside meaning. The inside of Koran can only be seen when the reason is capable.
Recently someone has come who brought a welding rod from Switzerland. It costs 150 TL. We talked to and the man used to come everyday. I ordered many of them but he said “don’t order many, let me send you gradually. “ He said “you are so strange man master! I don’t want to leave you. “ I asked “how are those subjects which we talked about? “ He said “It’s ok, right”.
We talked about Gazi (Atatürk) . He said “Gazi was really an important man. He used to ask the meaning of some verses and if they don’t know he used to disregard them. He used to ask most of them the meaning of “Vettîyni vezzeytûnî” , which they don’t know generally. A hodja could able to know the right answer then he gave him a lot of money. “
Look at the greatness of Gazi… His mind is such forward. Can it be sweared to olive and fig? Olive corresponds to the eyes of a perfect human I mean The Prophet Mohammed. Doesn’t fig look like a brain? Mount Sînâi is a rotating mount. Does such a mount exist? The aim of all those is to tell about the human which is perfect . All of the creatures obey and serve the human. Because the human is rearer, I mean he walks on his/her feet. Because of this state all of the animals obey him/her. During a struggle between the animals, if one of them is rearer, the other runs away.
Lets hodja translate and we try to eplain:
(Vettîyni vezzeytûnî): “Let the word of honour be on fig and olive.”
(Ve Tûr-i Sinîne): “And also Mount Sinai…”
Emre – We said them.
(Ve hâzel- Beled-ûl-Emîn): “Let the word of honour be on this secure region.”
Emre – Does Mecca corresponds to the secure region as the tafsir scholars said? If it were a secure, safe region, The Prophet Mohammed wouldn’t emigrate to Medina. Look, Medina is called as “Enlightened City”. If its community were not enlightened more the the community of Mecca, they wouldn’t say this. Our prophet also knew this and think that place is safer, so he imigrated to Medina. If the meaning of secure region is Mecca, how can a small city accept the millions of muslim? Because if it is a secure region everyone wants to go there. This is the right of each muslim.
However the real secure region is the loving mind (gönül) of the Prophet Mohammed. His loving mind is such big, Allah who is beyond the earth and sky, enters and stands in his loving mind. Can there be wider and safer place other than this loving mind. The aim must be able to enter this loving mind.
–Let the Word of honour be on fig, olive, Mount Sinai and this secure region; so we created human as in the most excellent state. (Ahsenî Takvîm)
Emre – What does “Ahsenî takvim” means?
—“Takvîm”, means to right something which is crooked. “Ahsen” means the most beautiful. Its meaning can be “ the perfect way of rightning “ .
Emre – Lets call it as “complete” ?
—Ok sir. .. (Sûmme redednâhû esfele sâfilîne =
“Then we negated and threw the human to the deep bottom.”
(îllellezîne âmenû ve âmilussâlihâti, felehûm ecrün gayrû memnûn =
“But we didn’t throw the believers and followers of the right path to the deep bottom; so they will have an uninterrupted award. “
Emre – The hodja to whom Gazi asked also had been replied in this way. When I told in this way, he couldn’t leave the shop. Those verses in Koran always corresponds to the symbol of the truth.
Q.-What does “Şakkulkamer” means? (splitted moon)
Emre – This is also a symbol. Can an event be understood such as splitted moon by the people of 20. century which relies on science and information? Although God has might for everything but can it be explained to a European who have decided to be muslim and know the astronomy very well? So, can the verse of Koran be false? Never! So what? Every word in Koran has some inner and outer meaning. If the truth were revealed, it can’t be believed easily. The Prophet Mohammed praised the eyes of his beloved in this word. Isn’t there two white crescent near the black of an eye? The moon which he splitted the moon is the eye of his beloved. He have hided by a symbol; ours is chattering.
Q. – Is it so really? Can I think in another way?
Emre – May you think about it,
Q. – Your discovery is the best interpretation.
Emre – It’s not a discovery; I’ve seen.
Sufism in Islam religion is different from all the others. Because it depends on love. But we are dealing with the outer side of the religion. We insist on sin and good deed. But we don’t know what are they actually.
Is this sin to sit together with those sisters and talk and listen about God? They don’t accept this mostly. However there mentions about (el-mû’mînûn) male believers together with (el-mû’mînât) female believers in Koran. I mean, to listen and learn this knowledge from the knower is also their right.
During the period of The Prophet Mohammed, women also had been come to listen the conversations and sermon.
* It’s known that Râbîa Adeviye and Hasan Basri had been attended to the community of the same Perfect Human. If it was so during that times, why can’t be nowadays? If we preserve our heart what can occur? If there is a lack of the conscience and honor, what is the usage of hiddenness or separation?
Someone was criticising the women’s lipsticks. I said:
— Those lipsticks are perfect sunnah.
— Are you serious? He said.
— I said yes, mascara and kohl were sunnah during the period of our prophet also. I mean, he accepted women’s cosmetic. Today’s cosmetic is lipstick and nail polish. Even in those times there was no separation.
Q. – From where this veil came?
Emre – From betrayel. We are in this state because we put our women in a black bag and put them back of the cage. Only woman can educate the child. In order to teach, women must know. Those favors of Gazi is priceless. If the conservatives take control, they made us wear burqa and shalwar again. Beside they force us to grow beard, then ok!
Beard was sunnah but in those days. If we think, there is a reason, I mean a purpose for each sunnah.
In those times, young people used to have a tag on their head and the old people used to grow beard. The reason for that is being able to be killed easily when they come across the enemy in war. The young people having no beard used to have a tag on their head and the old ones used to grow beard in order the enemy could hold and kill them easily without so much pain. That was the time of sword, in those times this habit was right. But now we are in period of atom. We don’t fight face to face. In those times to grow beard was sunnah, now to cut. Because if our prophet was alive, he would shave and wear like the civilized people. Because he himself says when time changes, the provisions/judgements also changes. If we don’t change according to time, we will remain behind.
* Just before, it is said that the wife of Abu Lahab was present in the circle of The Prophet Mohammed.
Q. – Does property, gold, jewellary, money lay back someone from the path of truth?
Emre – When we have much property our neigbours and humanity benefits from us. But it’s necessary not to worship to them. Worshipping is to love. If we love money and gold more than God, they become enemy of us and prevens from the path of God. Our prophet said: “Your property, your children, wife or husbands are enemy of yours” . But this word is said for the ones who loved or who will love them more than God. The words of our prophet must be understood well. We need to think on them deeply. Here he says your properties are your enemy but in the other hand he says who earns money and property are fellow of God. If we don’t think we remain under those words and can’t get use of them. It’s similar to the water. It gives life to everthing but if we dive without knowing how to swim, we will be drowned in it. It’s just like this, we have to know how to swim in our prophet’s sea of remarks.
The ones who love money and gold more than God, miss out the eternal pleasure. Grandma have listened a play in Cyprus radio. Everything becomes gold which is touched by someone (whether his desire or not). First of all, he likes this but then he sees that this is so bad… Altough gold supports the balance of the world, but you can’t till if you make it plough share; you can’t drive nails in somewhere, if you make it nail. When someday this man holds his child in his arms as being careless, child becomes a gold statue. He sorrows very much. Then he loses the pleasure of life and begs his master. His master washes the child with elixir of life and the child comes back to the original state. How such a nice metaphor.
Elixir of life is the words of a perfect human. A human can only be escaped from the deadness of material life by listening the words of him/her.
The words of truth is similar to this; it has no examples. For this reason everybody can understand those symbolized words according to their knowledge and state. For example they say “sun will rise from the west before the doomsday.” Can it be possible? The Prophet Mohammed said this because he had known that the Europeans will become muslim. The sun of material science had already been risen from the West. Now spiritual sun will also rise from there. They really deserve this.
Material science can’t be rejected. But beyond this there is also another science. Despite of our whole knowldege, all sciences are being uneffective across the death. Do the doctors have the ability to save themselves? The human body can’t be understood. It’s the palace of God, made of divine light. Everything in earth exists in it. God made this palace for himself. When he left, he himself routs it. Doctor, I mean medicine sees only the dead one of it. If he/she can see beyond, the secret wil gets out of order. The ones could able to see also do it without their own minds.
Q. – What if the secret fails?
Emre – He/she also fails. We can’t see because we stick to our being.
The life of human is a walking but it is backward walking. Our face looks at the ways we passed by and our backs is accross the destination in our future. This path isn’t reversable. A man in age 34 can’t go through age 33.
At some time, human forgets the past. He/she can’t know the future also. Between those two nothingness, there is a being. We can’t see this because we are walking backward. How hard is not able to see. To where, to whom we are going? What if there exist a well at our back?
Yazıcıoğlu says “this secret is only known by the performers of the return prayer “ How could he tell? How could he say in another word? The ones who return, truly know and see to where, to whom they are going.
In Koran the ones who are unaware of the truth is called as animal and the ones who can’t see it, is called as blind. This bothers but actually those words are gift for us. Because they make us wake up from the sleep of unwariness.
The knower wants to inform but there is no language of this state. The only way is this; if someone wants to know, he/she must be same as the knower. But he will help the one who thinks that “what is this state ?” and search.
For the old ones the most important thing had been dhikr. Ok! give a rosary to the wonderer of this state, let him/her to pray beeds. Although dhikr is actually conversation and dialog. Mind proceeds through the conversation.
We must not give up our job because of our mind is sticked on this matter. Believe me, the ones who entered this path with their feet of conscience, do their job better than before.
Most of the people takes those words against the shariah. But actually this is sheriah.
Niyazi Mısri who is one of the most important sufies also had been mistaken at a time. Niyazi, have been the master of scholars. He have heard that someone in Elmalı town of Antalya named “Ignorant Sinan” whose actions are being against to the sheriah. Niyazi comes to Elmalı from Egypt to turn him to the right path. He looks for him and finds Ignorant Sinan and friends in an old mosque. He realizes that all of them are in religious trance in an unaware state. He waits, when at the midafternoon and a call is given to the prayer, they even don’t move. He says “they are unbelievers as they said. In order to show them the right path, I need to preach first. If they don’t approve, we will use the rules of sheriah and kill them.”
After the prayer, Niyazî Mısrî comes to the preacher bench. When Ignorant Sinan glances at him, Niyazî, forgets all of the knowledge he had before that time. Niyazî, who used to preach about the merit of basmala for hours, can’t say anything. He starts to sweat. People wait what will say this great scholar coming from Egypt. But Niyazi is in deep silence. After a while he understands that this state comes from Ignorant Sinan for whom he came to discipline. Then he starts begging inwardly “ please don’t shame me. “ As soon as he thinks that, he also starts to speak fluently. After a while his mind again spoils. He thinks: “No, can there be an event like this, I’ve forgotten. How can a man destroy my all knowledge? “ Then again all of his knowledge gets lost from his mind. But this time his trouble takes time much longer. And he undertands very well that this event is because of him. He beggs again and his memory is been recovered.
After the preach he goes directly near to Ignorant Sinan to kiss his hand and wants to be included to his community. Then he says to his friends with whom he came together from Egypt: “My friends, now I’ve attended to this path; if you wish, stay with me, otherwise you may return.” His friends say; “Oh master! How is it possible? How can a scholar like you, obey such a man who acts against the sheriah?” But when they see that their words are useless, they leave compulsorily.
Then after that day, Mısrî Niyazî, stays with Ignorant Sinan. Everybody in dervish lodge has a duty except Niyazî. He bores from this condition and asks for a job from his master. Ignorant Sinan says: “ I don’t know those matters but you can ask the housekeeper; he will give you if there is any. “ Niyazi repeats the demand to the housekeeper. He says, “Wallahî we don’t have a job for you. There is some but we don’t think it is suitable for you.” He asks “what is it? “ Recently a dervish who was cleaning the toilets, dead. This was the only job we had. But we gave it to another dervish as an extra job. Niyazi says: “I accept this job with pleasure. “ Housekeeper says ok and gives him the buckets. Niyazî starts to clean the toilets. After many times, his self begins to bother him:” You came here with your all knowledge but look you are cleaning the toilets with the order of this man who is lack of prayer and ablution. Shame on you! “ Even Niyazî outrages Sinan inwardly. But suddenly he comes to his senses : “How can I think like that for such a man who erases my all knowledge with his glance? I am such an ungrateful man. This guilt can only be forgiven by cleaning the toilets with my beard. “ While he was trying to clean this way, someone holds and picks him up. When he awares that he is Ignorant Sinan, he falls at his hands by crying. Ignorant Sinan says: “No need to do this, your intention is enough, these are the temporary states. “ And he fondles him.
Then Niyazî becomes a great man. He has beautiful collected poems which is called as “Divan”. Our late Celâl Efendi used to tell; At Ceyhan a public prosecutor calls Niyazi divan as “interpretation of ignorants” .
Now this is the most free time for sufism. And this is because of the Civil Law brought by Gazi. We really must be grateful to him.
Q. – Those words are so nice!
Emre – We are not the one who said. He himself is both the One who says and who listens. We will die and leave but the One who is saying is eternally everlasting.
Notes from a conversation saved at 12.04.1957:
Emre – The mind is always in doubt unless finding its essence. (During this time, he stretched his feet which were in pain because of being bented. He said “would you excuse me ?” while he was massaging his knee. He was trying to mean his rheumatism.)
Sefer Öder – Don’t mention it! We know where to look at.
Emre – If the look is changed, is there a difference between face or foot? While friendship proceeds, custom is not needed. If custom exists, there is no friendship. Surely there is a border for both custom and friendship. They both are necessary according to the need.
Someday visitors had come to The Prophet Mohammed. They had a chat and belove. When they believe him fully, our prophet welters. After the visitors went the ones in this lodge say “wasn’t it disgrace ?” The Prophet Mohammed replies: ” No, as the friendship increased, custom is released. “
Q – It’s not possible without reason.
Emre – In this realm, reason and will doesn’t have authority. Here, only surrender is acceptable.
The Prophet Mohammed, have gone to God with Gabriel but only to a specific place. Gabriel couldn’t go beyond the last border(Sidretülmüntehâ). The Prophet Mohammed went beyond there with love. When he returned to the realm of discrimination, he again became friend with Gabriel. Gabriel was the reason of The Prophet Mohammed. Reason has no use in there. There needs love, but here we need reason.
This isn’t related with casting up accounts. The one can only be saved who casts up his accounts with his/her friend’s reason. We need to forget our own calculation. But calculation, I mean contemplation is necessary till to be absent in God. After being absent, contemplation also becomes blasphemy.
Q. – Contemplation till to the eve, isn’t it sir?
Emre – That’s it! After eve, the feast of truth begins; unending feasts…
(Suphi Kükürt, sang a revelation with his beatiful voice which falters with love. The last line of the revelation was : “Don’t say I, otherwise you’ll drop to the shirk. “)
Emre asked :
—What does shirk means?
—Partnership.
Emre – This is also not bad. God has shared all of his belongings to his creatures. His understanding, love, self, everything. In each of his belongings, he shares everything with his creatures. The shirk of devil is also nice. Human likes it also but just after stepping back.
Q.- They call us “Emre-ist ”.
Emre – Don’t listen such things. We aren’t “Emre-ist ” We are Allah-ist. Tomarrow or the other day, Emre will die; at this time will we be ownerless? No, we don’t bond a mortal one. We are Allah-ist.
No need to struggle someone. Struggling is fire, it burns. If someone asks, we say, if someone says, we listen. It’s ego to say “I belong to some teaching. ”
The ones who throw the stones, wants to be fed through the stone which they threw. When the fruit is dropped from the tree to which they throw the stones, will be their food. We love them.
It’s so hard, the mind wants to proceed and perfection instead of being absent. This is its nature.
The case or cash box of the things which is valuable must be thick. The thick case of this knowledge is made of hate, arrogance, ego, and desire irons. That valuable jewel is in the case of ego.
Someday while Şıblî and Mansur were sitting, a man of Shah comes to say that “there is an order for you from the palace. They need a sheikh from your lodge to heal an ill person. “ They say “ok” and send a man from lodge. Then Şiblî says Mansur : “ If they would wanted a dervish one of us should go. It’s better they wanted a sheikh.”
Notes from a conversation at 24.12.1957
Q. – Mevlânâ (Rumi) says : “Wrecks aren’t empty. “
Emre – When a human begins to think God, there remains neither world, the other world, nor desire, aim. Palace of pride in his heart is ruined. Such a heart is wreck. God stays in such hearts.
Q. – In which aspects people swell with pride?
Emre – Some swell with pride in their properties or some knowledge. Although The Prophet Mohammed who is the owner of all knowledge, declares his insolvency by saying “ we couldn’t know you duly.”
The real wisdom for a human is to know his/her imperfection. Both the beginning and end of all knowledge is the knowledge of inability. If one understands his/her ignorance and cognize his/her inability, he/she will be saved.
It had been asked Sokrates : “Is there anything that you don’t know?”. Sokrates has taken a leaf and says “ the things which I know, is similar to this leaf. On the other hand the things which I don’t know are less than the rows of those leaves towards to the sky.”
The biggest wisdom for one is to think about from where he/she came and to where he/she will go, then to find the place where he/she came and to be nothing in there while alive. Anyhow we are going to a nothingness.
Q.- Despite of how big jobs you accomplish, it has no use if you don’t find a perfect tutor, isn’t it?
Emre – The Prophet Mohammed also says the same:
“Lev lelmü-rebbî mâ âreftü Rabbî = If I hadn’t a tutor, I couldn’t know my Lord.”
You are also the tutor, the mentor of your school. Someone who doesn’t love you, can’t learn, you even can’t teach him/her. This subject depends on love.
Here we came, here we go! It doesn’t matter even if you have a lot of possessions and you are the most beatiful one, it’s nothing. Since it is custody. Inside of those nothings, there is some being which isn’t nothing, if you can find it, it’s ok. If you can mix it without yourself, it’s ok.
God helps the ones who knows that he /she is dead and aims to be revived. If someone comes a step, he comes much more. In short, there is no way other than love.
Q. – But he had given all love to you…
Emre – I am also giving to you.
Q. – We want more.
Emre – I’m giving much more. But it belongs to the receiver.
Duran Emmi – (Emre)! You have the power. Bestow to the one who deserved.
Emre – Shut up!
Duran Emmi – Ok!
Saved by: Şevket Kutkan
EMRE’s narratives, aphorisms, instantaneous replies:
* Q. – Are you Alevi?
* Emre – We aren’t Alevi, we are divine.
* Emre – Each state of a human is complaint because he/she had been borned with crying. To swear also is a complaint.
* Emre – To cry corresponds to poison. The poison of ego is really tear drop.
* Emre – The end of knowledge is pleasure. The knowledge which we will gain by means of knowing ourselves, provides this pleasure. Even love and enthusiasm is conditioning. We have no condition but we don’t give up any of the conditions. Each tariq belongs to us but we have no tariq even a way of one step.
* Q. – Is love condition?
* Emre – It is condition if it deals with just word without manifestating the state.
* Q. – I asked because it was necessary to be written.
* Emre – The one can’t gather the sciences in a dot, without being a dot. The one can’t see the whole without being a sentence.
* Moral happiness can’t live together with world politics. For this reason, we never discriminate religion or nation. Each religion, each disposition is ours. We accept them as they are. Even despite of our ability to change, we don’t change. Whatever we do, we try to make it similar to God’s works. Each organ is good in its place. If we change the place of an eye onto the chin it sees again but with the deformation.
“But, in this realm of manifestation everything is needed even politics. The Prophet Mohammed, have used everything according to their need.“
Emre – Hafız!
— Yes, sir!
— What did you do to your wand?
—They took it from me. I don’t know who took.
— Look, I’m carrying my eyeglasses in my pocket. Why don’t you put your wand into your pocket?
The Explanation of Nasreddin Hodja Narratives in Sufi Aspect
May you pass my hardy, pass!
Someday Nasreddin Hodja, meets a huge dog while he was passing through the graveyard. When dog attacked Hodja by growlingly, he says it “may you pass my hardy, pass! “
Explanation:
The grave of Nasreddin Hodja is this world. Isn’t it similar to a grave when two people comes face to face? In Koran, it is said “dead” for the ones who didn’t understand the truth. This world is a graveyard for the alive deads. While Nasreddin Hodja’s way of life was passing through this graveyard of world, he meets with a fractious man. Hodja compares the character of that man to a dog. If he comes into line with it, there would be no difference between them. For this reason, he says “may you pass my hardy, pass!”
The character of dead persons are also dead. Just like the dead’s bad smell, the characters of the people who doesn’t have a clean mood also have bad smell. This smell can only be sensed by the alive ones. Barking of a dog points this bad smell of the character. When it is sensed, it’s necessary to leave there, change the position and not to struggle.
Nasreddin Hoca also had acted in this way.