The Inner Source Digest – Unit: 25

July 1959
Issue: 25
EMRE’s Conversations: 25

EMRE’s Conversations 25

(This is a continuation of the long conversation in 16th issue. )

            Q. –  I’ve asked a question to Mr. Şevket: “If there is no end for the world, it means that it has the attributes of being eternal and everlasting. However those attributes belong to God. So, does it mean that we are assigning godhead for the world?”

            Emre – No, the manifestation of godhead has been given to the human not the stone or soil which is living in the earth.

            Q-Isn’t there an end?

            Emre – No.

            Q. – So, this means godhead.

            Emre – There’s such a realm in Islam, there exists the secret of immortality. There is a realm of being absent in God; we cognize this secret when this state is manifested.

Which one is eternal God or the world?

            Q. – God.

            Emre – Can human be absent in God ?

            Q. – They can.

Emre – So, human can be eternal. But not everyone. The mind assumes that the human, humanity is this body seen. Because the mind is restricted with body. Human can be freed from the body conditioning only by means of contemplation and knowledge. There is a hadith saying: “believers don’t die, they move to a different home”. The mind thinks that this is the home that we know. Although this is the home of knowledge, belief, loving mind (gönül).

            Q. – What if everyone recognizes the secret  of being absent in God?

            Emre – If they wish, it’s possible. But everyone doesn’t wish.

            Q. – So, what if God wishes?

            Emre – God’s wish is according to the wish of the servant.

            Q. – God says: “If I wanted, I would make everyone find the true path.” According to this word, it’s seen that there are two classes of human: The ones who have the ability to find the true path and the others who haven’t. The ones who are absent in God see themselves as the center of the universe, and because of their immortality, the universe can also be immortal. For the others the world isn’t eternal because of their mortality. Upon their death, the earth also dies.

            Emre – Is God cruel or judicious?

            Q. – Surely, He is judicious. He says “ you are victimizing yourself”. This shows that He is judicious.

            Emre – We can reach the state of being absent in God when we give up wishing and leave the rest to God. This probability of being absent is for everyone. This verse has been given to all humanity. As long as we think about “what’s God?” The first step of contemplation leads us to God.

            Q. – You can talk about the eternity of the world because you’re able to unify the matter and the realm of meaning.

            Emre – The perfect ones never wish something with their minds. They request with the will of God. They use their mind just to invite us.

            Q. – Isn’t the world for the sake of us?

            Emre – For the sake of all of us.

            Q. – It’s not for the perfect one, isn’t it?

            Emre – No, it’s for the sake of him also, because he/she lives in here.

            Q. – Won’t be a change, a destruction of matter of the world? For whom this eternity is valid? 

            Emre – It’s valid for God and the ones who obey Him.

            Q. – If I weren’t exist, God wouldn’t be exist for me, so do the universe. This opinion is arbitrary.

Emre – Would I know you, if I saw you six months ago? Now, after we met, I cognize you as Mr. Vâhit. From now on, I cognize you everywhere. God also has been known in this way. He can’t be known without a vision; when He is known, He also can be seen.

            Q. – Do you know United States?

            Emre – Supposedly we know…

Q. – But you hear…

            Emre – We are just imagining. Can the listening and seeing be the same?  When we say Adam, there comes a form before our eyes. Is there any form for the angel? We don’t accept nature as the biologists do. We accept nature as nature of God.

            Angel is the knowledge of human. We can talk to these subjects with the intellectuals just like you. When the conservatives say that “rain drops are being carried by the angels, sun is being moved by the angels”,  we also have to listen them in that state.

            Q. – The submitting of angels before Adam is being interpreted as the conviction of nature forces before human.

            Emre – No, submitting of angels before Adam has been said in different meaning. In Koran Adam is called as “Safiullah” (Pure  One of Allah). If you purify yourself with the knowledge of God, you can also reach that level. The meaning of submitting is to love someone without benefit and lust. The submitting is not to bend.

            Q. – Lets come back to the world; people understand the world according to their abilities and understanding.

            Emre – In spirituality, we don’t accept something like ability. God isn’t cruel to give someone ability to understand the spirituality and not to give the other. There’s a hadith saying that “everyone is born in nature of Islam. I mean as in clean and equal condition. He/she becomes Christian, Jewish or Mazdean with the aid of his/her mother, father.”

            Q. – We have to accept the capability.

Emre – It’s needed for the world. It’s not needed for being absent in God.

            Q. – Is the world eternal for the people in brutish level?

            Emre – No. Can there be an eternity for the animal? We are calling “human” also for the ones which you’ve classified as in the level of animal and for the ones which is mentioned in Koran as  “And We have certainly honored the children of Adam”. To whom God has been said this word?

            What can one carry during death if he/she would have all of the worldly sciences even if he/she governs the world? Don’t most of them be speechless with fear? Although some people are giving the last breath with smiling. Don’t The Prophet Mohammed say that “the one who fears is the one who is betrayal.” Don’tthe ones who are afraid of death correspond this class mentioned in hadith? In a verse also it has been said: “If you’re a loyal one, let’s desire death”.

From what fears the one who has become absent in God? In Koran, hasn’t be said that “the friends of God don’t fear, and don’t feel sad.”

Only contemplation saves human. The end of contemplation is also love.

            Does fear remain after the eternal wish obtained? That realm can’t be told with word and pen. When it’s been approached, neither ear nor mouth remains; all of them is transferred to God. But until that state, we need to ask and also say. Because belief is obtained through blasphemy. Now we are at night. Reaching light is realized through the night.   

            Q. – All of them are according to the human; that’s the theory of relativity.

            Emre – Yes, but “asking people” learn just like the “walking people” travel. To ask is similar to walk in this path. There comes a time the troubles of human are solved, then admiration and silence begin.

            It’s not easy to ask, everyone can’t ask. To ask means to say the other: “I know nothing about this subject; please teach me.” This can only be done when we left our ego at the door and enter. At that time question and response is from God. Yunus Emre says:

The bottle which is broken by Yunus is his ego and pride which are saying that:“ If I ask the things which I don’t know, I wonder if they say ‘ignorant’ for me. “ Otherwise it’s not the honour and chastity of the family. The words of the perfect ones have been usually misunderstood. Those words must be interpreted. Most people assumes that the words of honour and shame in this poem is related with family. No, The Prophet Mohammed is all of our guide, so do Yunus. Does he have any levity in his family honour, so that do we or Yunus have?

            We are all children before the truth. We need to grow in order to understand it. Just like our body needs food, our mind also needs love and word in order to grow.

            Q. – How can “manifestation of God in human” be explained?

            Emre – That might is being explained continuously but in order to understand this, we need ear and to see we need eye. For the one who saw the manifestation, no need for a witness or proof. The attributes of God are manifested from everywhere but His Being (Self) is manifested from human.

            From whom we learned the existence of God? From the prophets and saints, isn’t it? So, the manifestation of God’s self is in them. Just like the mirror and water take the sunlight and give it to us during sunup, they also do the same duty. The light reflected is more with respect to the size of a mirror. You can’t see the greatness of sun in such a mirror which is in lentil size.

The human starts to grow spiritually when he/she thinks about “What’s God? What’s the manifestation? From where I came? To where I’m going?” And  the ego which is acid begins to sweeten. Just like the change of unripe grape to grape. Human can neither ask nor learn unless having deigning and modesty which come after the death of ego.

            Q. – There is “the kalima shahada” (word of testimony) which is one of the main principles of Islam…

            Emre – Shahada means “I witness”. We say shahada but being a witness is through the vision.

            Q. – The blind can also witness.

            Emre – Isn’t it better to witness with our open mind? The blind can witness depending on his/her feelings. He/she can’t see but feels. If there would be a blind person here and we say

“Mr. Ali is coming”, he/she maybe feels that, but can he answer if we ask “how is his nose, ear?”

            The eye which will see God is not this, it’s our internal eye, eye of reason.

            Q. – Was there an absence in God at the level in which the first verse came?

            Emre – Sure. Wasn’t be said “Read with the name of The Lord.” If He weren’t absent in Lord, would He say that? Lord (Rab) means tutor. Lord is like a door of a house.

            Q. – Did the prophet have ego?

            Emre – Sure. He also was a mortal. Naturally he was created with ego.  

Q. – Did he aware of that?

            Emre – Sure. Otherwise would he try to cease his ego by suffering a lot in a cave seven years long?

            Q. – If he had an ego, why didn’t he say “Koran is my creation?”

            Emre – He knew that Koran belongs to God. During its manifestation he hadn’t his own ego. Koran was being manifested after his ego vanished. Did they write to Koran everything he said? His words which is said when he was awake are called as hadith. They’re not included in Koran.

            That lamp is lighting here, it’s shining. Can it give light anymore if it’s been switched off, and cut the connection with the center? 

            Q. – We don’t know the nature of electricity. What’s the power which is producing that light?

            Emre – It’s just like the sound of lighting up (çıt! çıt!). The coal has been pressed, the other is copper. Electricity comes out when they rub each other. There comes also an electricity when we rub our hands but our hands can’t resist, they burn because of this friction. Copper and coal have more toleration.

            Q. – Even so, the nature of electricity isn’t known. So, when the human couldn’t solve the subjects, accepts a being called Allah whom he/she doesn’t know the true nature.

            Emre – So, the main subject is weakness. If someone cognizes his/her weakness, can understand the subject.

            Q. – Are those atoms self-created?

Emre – Yes. It’s been said:“ We had given Him the reason from all things.” The reason is people.For this reason, human is the nearest creature to God. The secret of God is being manifested by human. Who is the seer? Human.Who is taking advantage? Human. For whom the one has invented electricity God, or the people? Could he able to carry his invention with him when he died? No. If we forget about the name, body, nationality we see that the inventor is human. There’s no nationality or something here.

            Q.- We were talking about shahada. 

            Emre – Shahada is a vision isn’t it?

            Q. – Yes.

            Emre – Look, what have been said by a poet:                                                    

            Do we able to see God?  No. According to the poet, we don’t have an eye therefore we can’t see. Besides, we have an eye. Poet says blind for us though we have an eye.   This physical eye is only a tool for vision. The real seer is the mind and wish of human which is mixed with the will of God.

            The mind of some people is similar to the mind of children. It doesn’t change, grow regardless of their age. Their mind can’t see God; because just like the babies who are unaware of what they’ve seen, they also can’t recognize what they’ve seen.

            Q. – Isn’t it necessary to have the other abilities for the vision of mind?

            Emre – There is; but their center is the encephalon.

            Q. – Does vision in shahada, only belong to the eye?

            Emre –No, it’s the vision of  the mind. Despite of that the blind people’s witness is not accepted.

            Q. – What if he/she has heard?

            Emre – In that case, they listen him/her as a witness of feeling.

            Q. – If the blinds were excepted from this, shahada would not be necessary for them. 

            Emre – We just said before, the eye which will see God is the internal eye instead of this physical eye. Don’t blind people dream? So, the eye which will see God is the eye during the dream.

While we were following Develioğlu, people were satirizing us so much. I had a friend from  Darende who is fully blind. Even he was saying: “you obey a man who is profane, let’s give up from this.”  I’d loved İbrahim. He, the late had even known the white cloth. When I ask “how do you know?” he used to say, the coloured ones are stiffer. He used to play jackstone, hide-and-seek, to ride bicycle with us. He used to turn immediately at the corners. He used to know the corners from the change of air condition.

            After then İbrahim started to follow Develioğlu together with us. He reached such a high spiritual state in which he could see me as I am when he mixed the eye of multiplicity with the eye of unity. He was saying that “I can see you exactly when I think Develioğlu.” Were İbrahim seeing me with his blind eye? İbrahim, was a true lover. When the lover is vanished in God, God sees through his eye.

            If you didn’t have the love of God, would you come here? Thanks God, the thing which

is irritating you, is the spark of that love.

            The eyes which see God is  being defined in Koran; the verse of “Divine Light”. Let’s the teacher translate it.

“God is the divine light of the heavens and earth. The example of His divine light is like a niche within which is an oil lamp. The lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly star lit from a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Such an unending divine light…God guides to His divine light whom He pleases. And God presents examples for the people.  God is The Knowing of all things.”

Emre – Lets call this as “clear and divine vision of human.”

God doesn’t see from the eye of human without entering his/her heart. I mean the vision of that eye can’t be the divine vision. It’s been said that “the heart of a believer is the house of God” but this job is so hard. I wonder how many of the people in the world are true believers.

            Q. – Is the real meaning of this verse an eye?

            Emre – Yes, it’s the eye which has seen God. The Prophet Mohammed had said this in a closed way hidden with some symbols. But we are saying it everywhere with babbling. Where’s this olive tree? Is there any oil lamp like this? This oil lamp is directly the eye of the perfect one.

            Don’t the people have right to satirize us because of our babbling? These are really the secret of God. You also need not to say this anywhere. It’s really sin to talk about these near the ones who is uncapable. We are talking like this because we saw your intellectual personality. We talk to the conservatives according to their understanding level. Don’t The Prophet Mohammed say the same thing: “tell the people according to their capacity of understanding.”

            Then even if the one hears these real words, can’t get pleasure if he/she has no effort in this subject in order to deserve.

Saved by: Şevket Kutkan

EMRE’s Narratives, Aphorisms:

*The hearing one is the conscience, not ear.

*Your heart can’t be washed while you are on the bench during your death.

*The knowledge of death has no essence, 

It’s just a grasp if you receive the news.

*

Your understanding is “Messiah”. Your body is “Mother Marry”.

    Emre – (to Fehmi Görgün’s daughter Serap) Do you have an itch my daughter? If so,  don’t eat the red sugars. Don’t eat the sugars also having coloured papers. Don’t wear the red clothes, don’t use also nail varnish, ok my daughter?

            (To the people in there) The red colour has many problems. It doesn’t transfer the useful elements. The red colour even doesn’t effect the glass of photography.

The Sufic Explanations of Nasreddin Hodja Narratives

It’s so Dark Inside

            Someday Hodja had lost his ring in his house. He looked around but couldn’t find. Then he started to look for the ring at the outside. The ones who saw this state of Hodja asks:

-My Hodja, what are you looking for there?

-My ring.

-But didn’t you lose it inside?

-Yes, I did.

-So what? Why are you looking for the ring outside which you’ve lost inside?

-Because, it’s so dark inside.

Interpretation:

            Hodja was looking for the ring outside instead of inside especially in order to show this absurdity and make them ask the reason. If the ones who watched those actions of Hodja, would ask him instead of laughing his answer:

–Your such actions and words have a wisdom that we couldn’t understand; could you please tell that us?

In that case, Hodja probably would say them something like this:

The ring is the “knowledge of truth”, “knowledge of God” which we’ve lost. This belongs to each of us. We get it from everywhere we’ve found.

House, refers to the narrow frame of books and some beliefs. We can’t find the ring without getting out the house to the sunlight. The book can’t teach us the real knowledge as it must be.

If we ask a word which we didn’t understand, can the book explain it to us? No, it can’t. So, surely we must find a “Live Book “ in order to ask our troubles.

                                                               ***

We are offering to our dear readers two stanzas of a revelation related with this narrative: