The Inner Source Digest – Unit: 10

December 1958
EMRE’s Conversations: 10

Emre – The mountains which are mentioned in Bible and Koran are not the same mountains which are formed from earth and stone. They are actually formed by the divine light and they are similar to the human. Each Word has an inner meaning. Therefore this knowledge is called as a secret knowledge… In order to understand these, it’s necessary to bond someone who knows.

Then the inner sight of our eye will open. Everybody has this understanding capacity but it can’t grow and have come to a standstill unless nourished by a spiritual source.

Q. – Is it same for heaven and hell?

Emre – They are also different from what we know about them. About heaven, we imagine a place with young girls and boys. God says to us “kill your own self”, but we are trying to feed and grow it with those imaginations.

The real heaven consists of knowledge and breeding. In order to explain this heaven, Niyazi Mısri have said;

The Prophet Mohammed also said in one of his hadith: “Most of the heaven population is stupid”. In this way, he rejects the heaven concept which is depending on the goal of lust.

The ones who know the real heaven don’t point out suddenly. When someone comes into the world, grows in time. Spirituality is similar to this. Our spiritual mothers nourish us slowly. If they nourish us instantly and much, we can’t digest. Besides, the words of truth are being said by each mouth and each book. But they can’t be understood unless the ear of the hearer is bonded directly to the heart of the one who is saying.

Q. – Our nation didn’t made think in those subjects. So, it’s hard to explain.

Emre – We said just before. The one who wants to understand, can’t do it with his/her own mind. We give right to the ones who doesn’t understand. If they don’t believe, they can get angry, we have to tolerate. Because we also had walked in this way.

Q. – Is it coincidental to find this?

Emre – This thing which you called as coincidental is waiting for us. People spend their inside essence to different things and for this reason they can’t see it.

Q.- But it has been said that “life is a combination of coincidences.”

Emre – Life should be dominated by work, not coincidences. When we leave life to coincidences, people become like our Orientals.

Q. – Jesus says “there is no evil “.

Emre – The viewpoint of Jesus is similar to the sun’s view of the stars. Is there any darkness for the sun? But The Prophet Mohammed didn’t think in this way. He thought everything in a proper way. He differentiated good and evil. In order to search good, we need to see evil as it is. If we see everything good, we fall into a trap. This is why Jesus was crucified.

Q. – Human has two parts which are physical and spiritual. If I leave myself to physical coincidences, it results in bad situation. But I want to believe in coincidences of the soul. In order to reach them, in which way the body should be killed?

Emre – What’s the blame of the body? Body and soul aren’t separate…

Q. – But don’t they detach during the death?

Emre – They are together till to death. Is this light of lamp different from the electricity of the factory? But they will be detached in proper time.

Q. – And then?

Emre – God said to us (Ruh;go)* before… If we can hear his voice, now he says (taâl;come). There are some people going and coming to this realm even during their life.

No matter how wise and scholar, we are being assumed as a child with regard to the truth. What can a child know? But the truth can only be understood by means of talking to each other. In this universe there is no coincidence.

Q. – I’ve seen you in divine lights yesterday night. Isn’t that dream and today’s meeting a coincidence?

Emre – No, we have seen that dream together with your mind. Our meeting is not a coincidence. Don’t you think that The Might was waiting for you? As a result, lets give up the coincidence and walk through the knowledge and study. We can’t see the real Islam because we are looking from the eyes of hodjas and bigoted ones. Just like the inability of eyes to see itself. But nowadays Islam is in the hands of intellectuals and thinkers. We are being gathered here because we share the same consciousness. The first step to reach a path, means the half of the path.

Q. – But we have some troubles…

Emre – We are all having troubles already.

Q. – Is prayer which we know necessary or not?

*(Ruh means soul in Arabic and Turkish languages. Ruh also means “go” (in slang), and taal means “come” in Arabic. ) Translator’s note.

Emre –The meaning of prayer is obedience. What do you mean for this word? Prayer, fast or something?

Q. – Yes.

Emre – Lets talk about the prayer (namaz). The outer side of the prayer provides health of the body. The inner side of it provides salvation for mind and conscience.

In each drop of the blood there exist everything which is in the earth. There are some beings which repair, grow, paint the body. When we sleep, they also sleep. Some other beings tour like the travelers and caravan traders as sleepless and then they become tired. The sleeping beings wake up in the morning together with us. When they were half sleepy we are being in the state of sleepiness. Morning wudu and prayer, especially bending and rising effects the action of the useful bacteria in blood by means of blood oscillation. When the hands put together, circuit is closed and electricity of the body is transferred to the abdominal cavity. This is also useful for the appendicitis. Those movements in prayer, for example the timing to bend in ruku is adjusted to say (Süphâne Rabbiyel’azîm) 3 times. Bending more than this, may be harmful.

Most ones who perform the namaz are healthy. Even a tired man performs namaz, his tiredness will cease. Because namaz, is not an exercise, a gymnastic which is designed by a partial mind. Instead, it is a divine gymnastic containing all of the necessary movements. Can it be not necessary?

Then the aim of the verses said during the namaz is to tell us the truth. This is the meaning of namaz. Namaz can not be accepted with only the movements of bending and raising without reading the verses. So, the essence of the namaz is not a formal movement. The real namaz is to be bonded with God through the heart. In this way, there is such a state in which the form of the prayer and mind is transformed. There stays no distance between the subject and God. When the good progress is achieved, even there remains no subject but one and only God. Then in that realm, you understand that the One who is looking from each eye is God Himself. In that realm, God says just for the understanding level of The Prophet Mohammed; “keep on praying till you are being closed to Lord “, not the others.

Now, in order to understand those type of words, The Prophet Mohammed said : “ One hour of contemplation is beneficial more than 60 years prayer!” Things done with conscious are safe from the accidents.

Q. – Foreign ideologies, especially communism presents a threat through the propaganda of a powerful country. Do you believe that the religious beliefs and pleasure of prayer is a weapon in order to defense?

Emre –Certainly. There are two powers to kill communism; faith and national power. Communism is dying. There were many regimes born and died until now… The earth swallows the cruelty fast. Communism is something like a whip in order to uncover the truth. After accomplishing its duty, I mean after awakening the World, it will come to the end even starting from the inside first.

Nations without religion has no conscience, each person afraid of the other. Similar to this, wild animals also afraid of each other. Just like the animals living in a society don’t hurt each other, persons in societies which gathered around the light of conscience don’t hurt each other but love.

(We will offer a revelation related with this subject after the conversation.)

These subjects which we talk specially belongs to sufism. They can’t be generalized. For this reason they are called as “the secrets of the truth”. In this subject The Prophet Mohammed also said “talk to the people according to their perception capacity.“ But on the other hand there are some people who want to understand the essence of religion. The one who knows is obliged to say them. Isn’t it better to understand and to see what the religion and the faith is? Because of its visibility, The Prophet Mohammed said “I testify that there is no divinity but Allah” . Because to testify means witnessing. Testimony is through the eye not the ear. The Prophet Mohammed says “I testify that there is no divinity but Allah exists absolutely!” . In order to be able to use the word “absolute”, witnessing and correct knowledge is necessary.

Despite the resistance of bigotry there is a nonstop walk through the truth. Even their rejections are being accepted as a step in this path.

Europeans are dealing with that subject more than us. Most of them are accepting Islam. But they are not conservative like us. We afraid of Koran but they don’t. They translate the verses as they are and they drive benefit from them. The holiness of Koran is in its meaning, not in its paper or lines. Why do we afraid of it? There is an hadith “the one who afraid is the traitor”. If we know what is God, we don’t afraid but we do love him. Do we afraid of the government? But the lawbreaker always has fears.

What is religion? Is it a science? Is it a book? Religion is a path in order to reach God. If it is a path, there must be a beginning and an end. So, instead of being in steady state condition, we need to progress by means of the steps of contemplation, towards to end of the path.

The prayer is not enough, there needs to work also. When you take your pen and I take my hammer, and if our conscience is complete, I mean if we hold God in our loving heart, this also is a prayer. In our work there is benefit for the others. Besides, the prayer on one’s own is for his/her own self.

Q.- You are right. In each time Omar had entered a mosque, he had seen a man who is praying. One day he had asked “what is your job? What do you eat and drink?” Man answered that “my brother Works, bring my food and I deal with only praying , I pray for him .“ Omar had said “I swear his work is better than your praying.”

Q. – What is your opinion about the insurance?

Emre – Everything which is emerged from the civilization is good. This is brand new for us.

They say “Arabs are civilized” because of The Prophet Mohammed. His civilization has jumped to the Europe and then we had been out in the cold.

Now The Prophet Mohammed manifested who is wearing new clothes. In each period The Prophet Mohammed who is civilized is being leading. Do the Syrians, Egyptians understand the meaning in his words despite they have the same language with him? If they could able to understand, would they yield across the communism? We would never yield to the death. They say to the wolf “come and eat me and my children also”.

Q. – I think faith isn’t only prayer. A hodja said faith is a core which will emerge the special heaven if it could appear.

Emre – The meaning of faith is being in safe. Can a person be in safe unless he knows? Blasphemy means “to close” in Arabic, we need to open its cover in order to see the faith. If we try to open the cover of what islam is mentioning about, we are in the path of religion. In this path, progression is through the contemplation. A person can only reach to some point by himself/herself. In order to reach the goal, it is necessary to enter the loving heart of a perfect one. Look, how progressed Yunus Emre, who is an ignorant sheperd after he had been absent in his tutor’s loving heart. Rumi says; “I’ve seen Yunus who is an old Turkmen, in each spiritual level I’ve achieved…” But now God manifested a light named Rumi who is surrounded by all nations. A person can certainly reach to this goal if he/she decides firmly.

Q – They have made Rumi an idol. They request materialistic wishes by facing the thresholds. They are far from the idea, the essence of him.

Emre – It can’t be understood unless beginning from the alphabet. If everybody could hear the saying “Don’t search me from the earth I mean from the tomb, search me from the loving heart of the sages!”, no one would visit the Green Tomb. However many people starting to burn from that tomb assuming Rumi is in there.

In this realm of “Everything that is thereon will be perished” neither you and me, nor Rumi exist. Rumi, Yunus, Ahmed, Mehmed, these are the realm of multitude. The name in the realm of unity is only Adam. If everyone would know Adam, no one could able to talk. Let them to say Rumi (Mevlana) for now, some day they will start to think about (Mevla ne? What is God ?) .

Is it easy to understand Rumi? We had attended the ceremony of 682nd Deathday from Ankara. In this ceremony there was no speaker other than Sofi Hûrî and Professor Schimmel who really aware of the spirituality of Rumi.

Q. – Doesn’t “Mevlâ” mean God?

Emre –It also means master. There are a lot of names of God. Beside master, seditious also belongs to him. These are the characters. The aim of telling the beads is to tire the ones who is doing this and as a result making him/her to ask and think “ what are those actually?” . In the path of God, knowledge and wisdom is necessary. The shortest one is the path of love. When love is emerged from a shepherd like Yunus, scholars becomes helpless. Just like a human having all of the mines in world, all of the sciences, accordingly secret knowledge also exist in him/her. It will progress according to which science and character is processed.

Q. – What is your opinion about soul?

Emre – Soul belongs to the realm of multitude. In Koran, there is mentioned about a realm which is called as “Everything that is thereon will be perished” . When everything is temporary, could there exists any soul? There will be a period in which you will digest your soul. Soul is a toy and mind is a child. Child doesn’t want anything other than the toys. However, the aim is to understand and find God not the soul. For this reason, The Prophet Mohammed replied the question about soul as; “soul is the order of God” in a short way, in order to close the subject.

However he had opened while he wanted to close. If we find our Lord and obey his orders, the meaning of the soul will be obvious.

Words can’t be understood unless the ones who is saying and listening have the same soul.

Q. – I accept the master as a person who nourish us in spiritual aspects.

Emre – Fine right. It is said that ”I blew from my soul.” Isn’t it a food? God has shared us his attributes partially. What if we return those parts even ourselves to Him in order to understand the secret of “We are coming from God and surely we will return to Him”. Doesn’t this make us unite with God? However if we don’t give, we stay in separation. We give when proper time comes.

Q. – Bayazid Bastami have said: “I’ve seen myself when all the veils are removed. “

Emre – It would be better to remove himself instead of removing all the other veils. The match of love fires all of the veils. This subject can be handled hard with the aid of knowledge.

Therefore Yunus Emre is greater from all of them. For a human, the aim is to remove himself/herself. If we look and see ourselves, then there is wailing beyond.

Once upon a time, a villager had gone to the city. While he was walking in the streets he heard some louds from a big hall. This was about a discussion between a couple. Sometime lady got angry and threw her cheval glass to the street. This made the glass divide into the pieces. In those times, glass had been newly invented. The villager surprised at this. What was that? When he came closer, he saw that they are some shiny pieces. When he took one of them and saw himself inside, he liked this and put it in his inner pocket. He watched himself in unpeopled places. At the end, he arrived at the village. He forgot the glass because of being tired and got of his coat and hung it up. He had a young wife. When her husband returned from the city, she used to wonder what he brought to her and seek his pockets. Again she looked for his pockets and found something rigid and shiny. She never saw a glass before. When she was looking, she saw herself in the glass. She thought that her husband cheats on her then she started to cry.

Upon this, her mother in law came and asked her “what’s going on ?” She replied “did you see what did your son to me? He cheated on me. “ Mother said let me see. She gave the piece of glass to her mother in law and said “look, she is inside of this.” Old women also cried when she looked into the glass saying that “ oh my stupid boy, you cheated on your wife even with an old women” . The father in law came and asked “what is your problem? “ His wife said “look, what did your son do? He cheated on his wife even with an old women.” When the old man looks into the glass he also saw himself, and started to cry.

Our understanding of the secret knowledge is similar to this story. It will be understood when we are able to see as the owner of the glass, but…

Q. – What is the meaning of “Unity of Existence” ?

Emre – There comes a period, the states of the followers of this path changes. He/she suddenly awares of being lost and there is no one other than God. During this period, he/she can’t see any

fault because the one acting, only is God. The villein understands the secret meaning of the verse; “Say that Mohammed, everything is from God” . It is such a pleasant realm…

That’s the meaning of “Unity of Existence” which is described by the Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi. When the self of a person disappears, there stays only the existence of God. This is the “Unity of Existence” . But this realm is transient, they return to our realm and keep on seeing everything, everybody separate as before. Because they must talk to us with the same tongue in order to make us progress. The realm of “Unity of Existence” , is “ The realm of Above “, “The realm of Existence”. That is a realm of fire, which burns the person. The one in this level is named as (Rab; Lord) by God. If we could able to see him during this state and get his even a little fine glance, we would able to be heartened and saved. But how can we know he is in that realm? For this reason, we must become close to him in each time, good or bad.

Q. – God says : “If you cite me frequently, I will also cite you. “ We loved God, ok, how can we know that He is loving us? The ones in a religious order don’t know this. They say “God wouldn’t give us the properties if he wouldn’t love. But God gives them to the infidels also. The Pharaoh had given the longest life and he had fully supplied livehood.

Emre – If someone loves God for the sake of properties and long life, it means it’s useless. In order to get the properties, God had given hand, arm, mind. You can get the properties by using them. God must be loved with a love without benefit.

While saying that “cite me” actually God means “remember and love me” . Otherwise it doesn’t mean telling one’s beads. The verses of Koran must be read in order to understand instead of blowing. Understanding the real meaning of Koran is called as wisdom. Wisdom save the people from bigotry. In order to tell this, Yunus Emre says:

That means if someone couldn’t get the taste of Koran during his/her life, I mean couldn’t understand the meaning of it, is it possible to tell him/her the meaning of Yasin while he/she is struggling with death? However God said “I’ve send you Koran in order to understand .” It’s never been said “Read and blow the verses” . Look, how bigotry effected our progression…

Yes , (Yâsin) must be read to the dead ones but not the ones at the last breath. It must be read to the people who are actually dead and walking around. In Koran, it is said to The Prophet Mohammed “You are dead, either they are”. You must tell Koran to the dead ones walking around if they want to listen and to understand.

Q. – So Koran is just for the alive ones, isn’t it?

Emre –Sure… When I was a child, I used to pray 3 times Ihlas, and once Fatiha verses and make gift them for the souls of first of all The Prophet Mohammed, then all prophets, saints, then my mother, my father while I was walking near the graveyard. I couldn’t think that in the aspect of such a weak person like me, praying for the soul of The Prophet Mohammed is just like giving alms to Croesus. Could I able to tell the meaning of Koran to The Prophet Mohammed who is such an “Ocean of Unity”? Actually I was not even a drop of that ocean.

So, we want to read Fâtiha, Yâsin to The Prophet Mohammed because we assume that he is dead. However, he is the eternal alive, we are dead actually.

When we explain the subjects in this way, the conservatives attack us, they say infidel for us. Infidelity means not to know. A human is infidel of the thing which is unknown; not God.

Q. – During the period of Rebublic I was a tomb keeper in Ak Şemseddin, Ottoman, Orhan tombs. Every morning I used to perform an ablution and read them Fâtiha. Some day I was also said that “read Fâtiha to yourself!”

Emre – I mean it is said that “perceive the meaning”.

Q. – Many people afraid of entering the tomb of “Ak Şemseddin.”

Emre – The blind is always fearful. Can the edge of baton have the same sight with an eye? Fear is always the keeper of this life. The fear of the ignoramus, scholars, saints are all different. I was also fearful and much conservative before. So, I love fearful and conservative ones very much. If foot doesn’t exist the head would fall down. They are the parts of us.

Q.- We all admire of your tolerance. We also need to see them natural but we can’t. In each side your effect and moral qualification is being told. Especially your tolerance and elasticity is admired.

Emre – (bowing his mature modesty …) (After singing a revelation)

Mind needs love while it’s being starving. This is the reason of singing the revelation. It is said that “music is the food of spirit”. The aim is to feed the spirit. Just like us, spirit also has another one called “soul” inside of it. It seeks its primary being, just like the search of Kerem for original being instead of Aslı. **

The outside of spirit is looking for the carnal pleasures. It seeks for the songs of carnality. The spiritually fed soul is tolerant for everything. It listens the songs with a divine pleasure, just like translating them to its own tongue.

Q. – Just like the production of honey by bees from everything even from the shit, isn’t it?

Emre – Yes indeed bee even touches the shit, receives its sweet, sugar, nitrogen. There exists no acid and contamination in honey. No one is poisoned from the honey despite the reception of honey, honeycomb from the most poisonous flowers. Because it clarifies everything it received. We also need to clarify what we have seen and heard.

Many of the perfect human, have gone to the bistros and brothels in order to save the fallen people. But no dirt attaches to them. They only aim kindness. The people who are in the path of God forgets the badness, the ones who harmed them, and their own kindness against others.

They can’t forget the kindness against to them and badness against to the others. This state is the top of the hill. The reason will get some rest there and then goes on.

**(Kerem & Aslı is a love story. Kerem means grace and Aslı means the original being) . Translator’s note.

We need to make use our eyes to see fine and to see the good things. And to make use our ears to hear fine and to hear good things.

There can be some people being higher than us which we assume bad. In this case we have to follow them. If we would have the ability to see and understand this…

As a result, it has to be understood that the glory and the beauty of God is together. The glory is being manifested through someone and the beauty or knowledge or ignorance through the others. If we gather all of them then this “Great Being” will be emerged. This is the perfect “Unity of Existence”.

Q. – We are so happy due to this conversation full of such great and spiritual pleasures. Because we didn’t talk about other than God and the prophet till now. And we didn’t gossip.

Captured by: Şevket Kutkan

The Revelation related with the conversation:

EMRE’s epigrams, aphorisms, Instantaneous Responses:

• The status of manhood is our cloth. I mean in order to earn our living, we will vociferate, worry, assert our rights if necessary. Even so, we will have tolerance. Otherwise we will become naked.
• Q.- Scientists are generally modest.

• Emre – As knowledge grows, human becomes small. In a place where there is fire, there can never grow grass; I mean the grass of pride, arrogance.
• Maturity begins just after the end of religious order (tariqa). Tariqa, means path. Path also can’t be denied but if we can’t arrive the destination it means we are stranded. From here to İstanbul it takes 1.050 kilometer. You passed 1000 km and 50 km left, does it have any use?

• If dervish lodges would not be closed then sufism couldn’t emerge.

• Think that how many pieces are there in this watch… If you remove one of them, it doesn’t work. The way of sufism is just like that. Its prerequisities are taqwa, courage and perseverance.
• If tummy becomes empty then head becomes full of knowledge. If head becomes empty then it will be filled with God.
• Sufism was not accepted before its shell stripped. Because its shell was tariq, sheikdom, rosary etc. Now its shell is stripped, the inner manifested. This inner belongs to youth and it will be proceeded by youth.
• Q. – Americans are so practical. They made ladles including spoon and smaller one.

* Emre – Measurement is a very good thing. There is also measurement in (Truth). The measure of truth is virtue instead of knowledge. When virtue becomes advanced then knowledge comes naturally.

Sufistic Explanations of Nasreddin Hodja Narratives

How to construct a minaret?

A man who had never seen a minaret in his life asked some day Nasreddin Hodja:

-My hodja how do they construct those minarets? Hodja answered:

-It’s not so hard. They reverse the inside of the well to the outside, that’s it.

Interpretation:

The well in this anecdote can be assimilated as human body. In fact it is mentioned in a revelation:

In this way, it’s been pointed that the well corresponds to the human body. In the mental and ethic well of human there can be some old, dirty waters and mud. If that well, consults the well digger, (I mean a perfect human) in order to be cleaned, then the well digger cleans him by reversing the inside to the outside. He rises and turns him to a minaret while being in deep well. Then this man starts to give the call; the prayer of Truth to declare.