The Inner Source Digest – Unit: 9

December 1957
EMRE’s Conversations: 9

(Notes saved from a conversation at 29.11.1957)

Q. – In one of the Inner Source Digests, you have a conversation with a priest. In this conversation you hadn’t introduce yourself to the priest directly, instead you made Mr. Celal enter before you. Why did you intend him to be thought as you? Couldn’t you measure his capacity?

Emre – We are the beings. Is there anything direct? The Prophet Mohammed said: “everthing has a cause”.

Is it right to judge the capacity of someone by means of the divine might? In such a case can it be assumed as defeat? So, we went there as an ordinary being.

Beside, Mr. Celâl was a great man who led us to the source of this knowledge.   For this reason, we also had great respect to him. This was the reason of our preferance. If he could able to convince him, we wouldn’t interfere.

The priest was intelligent. He never married and dealed with only the wisdom of christianity. If we didn’t act in such a way, we could not able to measure his might in wisdom.

We watched his conversation with Mr. Celâl to recognize him. We loved the priest and his wisdom much.

Q.- Did Mr. Celâl learn to love the people?

Emre – Yes.

Q. – One of my friends doesn’t accept the sufism.

Emre – The principle of sufism is “not to interfere of any one’s understanding”. Sufism is to love everyone with their beliefs and understandings. Actually sufism is to give up the quarrel.

Even a queen, is a slave of her own child. We are also the slaves of the ones who doesn’t know the Truth. So we obey of their color(understanding). But we obey of his/her color temporarily while we are in contact with her/him. We do this lightly in order not to hurt. When he/she left, we again return to the same color just like a mirror.

Look there had been a man, called ” Naqshband” who tried to waken up the people around him. There are so called followers of him. There is much difference now… They even not aware of that.   This man, have accepted each embroidery of this realm as it is. He never looked down on someone, never thought about something insufficient, he saw everything complete; proper. For this reason he is called as “Naqshbandi : Embroiderer”.

This state is a great perfection. If someone comes to send you up, you need to avoid of being angry but this has to be natural as a mood, not forced. You must not get angry with someone who is kidding, in order not to hurt him/her. Modesty is the heaven of human. If you intend to be modest, this can’t be gained suddenly. It has to be digested.

Q. – (Suddenly) Whose cigarette is this?

Emre – It’s ours.

Q. – I just asked to see if you would say that “It’s mine!” . It means so I asked a question that I would be defeated.

Emre – No, we don’t know such a thing… We don’t want anyone to be defeated or hurt. Beside, what do we have actually? What belongs to us?

The one who doesn’t accede each kind of hurt, can’t understand the truth. Eastern people doing tattoo to their faces and bodies. They apply a chosen form, for example a flower onto their body. They tattoo a chosen form for example a flower on any part of the body by means of an ink which is produced from powder. They make it bleed by means of collected needles. When the color of this powder ink mixed with blood, those tattoes appear. Do the one allow to tattoo who can’t stand the pain of the needles, and who doesn’t love?

Q.- Does this tattoo worthwhile?

Emre – Ask him also. If he would say “why do we need this tie?” how can we answer? If this is how we understand the civilization, that is also how he knows it.

Q. – What if everybody unite in the same ideality?

Emre – Neverthless, embroidery will degenerate in this case. This will be possible if you find someone like you. Beside your face, your mind is different also.

There is some period, in which you will be aware of yourself, and know the meaning of this dream then your difficulty will be solved. Don’t say that “it’s impossible!”. The people can achieve everything, if they decide firmly to do.

Q.- What do you think about the dream?

Emre – Doesn’t the word dream comes from the word “seeing” in Arabic language? I mean there is both you and what you see, and beside your thought.

Dream belongs to the realm which is multitude. In the realm of unity, there exist neither dream nor anything. Being is one not two. For this reason, it is called as “The Unity of Existence.”

You may love something, then this is planted in your brain. After a while, for example a few days or years, this breeding, this love which is grown during this period is seen from you to you.

Q.- But people don’t see only the loved ones in their dream…

Emre – They see the ones which they get angry or afraid of. That is the same as being gathered together.

Q. – Why do we see them?

Emre – They embroider to our minds. Human brain is greater than the sphere of the earth even greater than the whole sky. The human takes a photo into the mind by means of his/her eye or ear. Just like it’s not possible to see the picture entered from lens immediately, it’s not possible to see the dreams of pictures which is captured by our brain. The Picture, which is entered from the lens, appears only after the chemical bath. The duration of the things inside us which we saw, heard is similar to this duration of chemical bath before they occur in our dreams.

Q. – Sometimes, we see the future. However we don’t know them.

Emre – It’s better not to know.

Q. – Sometimes I see someone which I’ve never met.

Emre – No. Actually the desires, fears, emotions within us enlarge something we know, make it giving branch and snag, and present it to us in a way.

Q. – You are mentioning about being close to God…

Emre – Are you far from?

Q. –But I must do something to find. I need to change the direction of my vision from the world to God.

Emre – No. No, this prevents the progress. I think this is the greatest blasphemy. Human must serve the humanity and at the same time must search God.

Q. – Just before, you said cigarette is (ours) instead of (mine) . I mean you said that it belongs to all of us with egoless generocity. So, if we can share all, could you able to accept my guilt also?

Emre – No. We want to get rid of the guilts. Guilt is forbidden by God and law also. We don’t share the guilt.

Q. – Actual virtue is sharing the guilt. Because evil is also created by God…

Emre – If I want to make you kill a man which I intend to kill, if I invite you to perform this murder, will you do this?

Q. – Maybe I don’t. But don’t we have a share also in this murder?

Emre – If we think in this way, there would be no guilt. This will result the whole people kill each other…

Q. – If I shoot someone, this is a guilt, yes; but I’m just a man who shoot. But the reasons of this shooting are formed by all of us not just me. Why do we see the killer and killed only? We need to search the reason of reasons sequentially. When I killed this man, I‘ve just stroke a match to the gunpowder of reasons.

Emre – If it is so, let’s try to be water instead of being gunpowder or fire.

Q. – But human is loosing himsef/herself in this whirlpool of the reasons.

Emre – There are also many people who doesn’t loose himself/herself. Loosing the self is immaturity. We are trying to have maturity. Mature people forgive the ones who hit or revile them and in this way prevent the happenings. Why the man/woman must be responsible from your nervosity who has social missions and a modest life in a city? Why should they share your guilt?

We do not share the immaturity, but we try to bring it to maturity. Everything can’t be shared. Would you give your eye to someone for safekeeping? You wouldn’t. Because you need it. Everyone must improve himself/herself.

Q. – Don’t you want to give an advise to someone?

Emre – I want if he/she listens. What can I say if he/she doesnt? You can’t make she/he listen forced.

Q. – Just before you said that human is greater than the universe. If he/she has this might then he/she can do…

Emre – God says “Someday you will come to me with your performances.” Reaching him is through the performances, not body. He accepted and created all activities. This progress comes from the combination of diversity of the information and ethics. Goodness is required for the good ones, misdeed is required for the evil ones. Every creature has its own food. The captain is the one who saves his/her own ship. Human has all tempers but we are controlled by the one which is in the wheelhouse.

Q. – Where does this love go after we die?

Emre – We do not die. The one who dies is this body. We are not body. After we die, body is nothing more than a carrion. If the one sees it, then he/she loathes. What if we loathe just now.

We will reach the eternity if we understand that we are not this body. This body is a cloth. We throw it when it wears out. The ones who has a capacity to look ahead is called as “great”. Lets try to look ahead.

Q. – Look, when you said “ours” for the cigarette, you really made us associate it. I adore your kindness. I even can’t believe a friend of mine.

Emre – If a state of a character did not match, its word would be a lie. For this reason, liars are cursed in Koran. Being cursed means being apart from God. Anyway, lie can’t come near to God.

Q. – I don’t shy when I’m talking to you. However I need to choose my words carefully even when I’m talking to my best friend. I believe your words just in that way.

Emre – The greatest sincerity is to tolerate and to forgive. The one who can’t digest my state, insults. But God tolerates and forgives everytime. Mother does not get angry for the dirt of her child, she washes and cleans it. I mean here love is predominant. Everything is understood when there is love.

Actually those words belongs to God, not Rumi but manifest through the tongue of him. Beside, that eternal might never dies. This heart is being a grave of many wishes, badnesses. Let it be a grave of that eternal liveness which will save us.

Drops are mixed when they touch each other. But if they are far from , they can’t mix, and then they get dry..

Q. – Don’t you tolerate drink?

Emre – Yes, don’t drink. There are two kind of drunkenness. Other than this there is also an inward drunkenness. Isn’t the first one harmful for both economy and health?

Q. – Yes it is. But maybe the one is drinking to forget himself/herself?

Emre – This is just a consolation. But I never look down on you…

Q. – It happens sometimes. Sometimes if you don’t offer drink to a friend means to refuse him/her in that table. This friend believes that dearness is to clink glasses.

Maybe alcohol cheats us but we accept to be cheated. I actually prefer not to be cheated.

Emre – Yes, God doesn’t be hurt or angry if you drink raki. He doesn’t condemn us for this reason. He outlaws the drink because it is harmful for us.

Q. – Unfortunately, we can’t use our will, and can’t be a good people.

Emre – This is the most important gain for the one to knows the weakness and fault of the self. This is the greatest knowledge. The ones assuming themselves as blameless are actually blind.

Q. – Despite of accepting her/his blame, one also feels right in some aspect.

Emre – Yunus Emre has a verse for this:

It’s not easy to cope with it. The self which defeats us is without hand or foot. But it defeats with just a glance of its eye.

In Koran, it has been mentioned about double death, double resurrection. How can a human die twice? One is death of the body, the other is death of the mind. The second one begins when our will is delivered to God. This death is an eternal resurrection. When the wishes are given up then God’s wish and will manifests. This eternal resurrection is beyond that. But neither we could able to tell this nor you could understand. Because this is a wordless state…

Language of The Truth is combined with the language of people. It’s being told about a

“ Great Name”. This state manifests while we are working in this path. The death we mentioned before begins just after that manifestation. This is the resurrection after death. This can’t be achieved with mind, education or philosophy… But human can achieve if he/she wishes. Without an exception everyone can achieve.

This education is gained through the contemplation. When one goes to bed, suddenly he/she turns to double personality, and then he/she starts to judge his/her self. Human becomes ruler for him/her self. This is the contemplation which The Prophet Mohammed said. I mean the digestion of those words. Those words strike root for the hearers if they wish loyally.

This is the end of all knowledge. All of the people are walking to this destination. Europeans understand fast. They will learn this state and teach us then we will believe. There had been many Rumi’s till now. Did we believe in them? No. Nowadays Euroeans are dealing with that subject. They will progress the subject and deliver it to us. Whatever, may it happen in any way.

But everybody can’t dive into this ocean of love. Certainly there are some exceptions. Because the fruit must have a peel. Just like that there can be no creature without skin. The peel strengthens the inside. The inside of watermelon takes power and taste from its stick. A huge tree can give fruit even it has a cavity. But it dries if its bark is peeled.   Both the bark and inside has its own jobs. Nothing is absurd. We can’t ignore the bark. If we ignore, then we’ll become the bark.

Q. – Why do we accept them to stay as bark?

Emre – If they don’t want, we can’t force them. There must be a shell in order to save the inside. Either they or we will be. Beside, it’s our duty to invite them to the right path. In Koran, God says that “I am The Lord of Universes”. Lord (Rab) means the divine tutor, and leader. Divine tutor shows the way for the one who intend to enter the way. If he/she doesn’t

intend, what can he do? Such people don’t see even don’t want to see the tutor. Because they are glad with their own character. They worked hard and they can’t give up their effort.

While someone was going to a far distance, met a woodcutter. He also was so tired. He wanted to rent the donkey and asked:

-How much are those woods?

-250 liras.

-I’ll give you 250 liras, leave the woods, and let me ride, ok?

At the beginning man said ok… He left the woods. But just when the voyager tried to ride, he said:

-Look, what will happen to my woods?

-I already gave the price of those woods. If you wish, I can give more, let me ride. Woodcutter said:

-Noway, I can’t give up my woods. I worked hard for them.

Just like this, we can’t give up our wooden character easily. While the wood is seen, it’s hard to give it up. It’s better to fire the wood; to fire the wooden character with the fire of love.

***

Q. – We see some concepts in sufi books like “absence in tutor”, “absence in prophet”, “absence in God”. Could you please explain them?

Emre – While Develioğlu was talking about them, I couldn’t listen. Let me explain in this way:

If a disciple accedes all of the actions of his/her tutor sincerely without being hurt from his punishment and if he loves the tutor more than his life, this state is called as “absence in tutor”.

And then if he understands that his tutor’s speech is just the same as The Prophet Mohammed’s speech and if he forgets the physical body of his tutor saying that “The Prophet Mohammed is talking through my tutor, there is no difference”, this type of understanding is called as “absence in prophet”.

Didn’t our prophet say the words of God? If the one sees that those type of words are also said through the tutor and if he/she says that “ This Might is talking through him, there is no difference” , this state is also called as “absence in God”.

***

Emre – The last science is light. They will cure many sicknesses by means of light. There will be no drugstore in the future. The light of each star cures an illness. After some time, the equipments will be invented to differentiate each starlight. How many colors do we have? Hundred or something? When we have three thousand, five thousand, the specifications and usage of starlights will be understood. This wave is in front of us and is coming to here.

One can’t say that “I need to invent something”. It can only be found while searching some other things. Our earth is pregnant with them. When the time is conveniant, it emerges through the hand of an inventor, a scientist. Instead of an ignorant, it emerges from a scientist dealing with this subject. The scientist can evaluate and conclude what he/she saw, unlike the ignorant.

God doesn’t distinguish muslim or christian people. With whom he is not together? He even is much together with the one having more knowledge, technical capacity.

We can talk about this subject to a scientist but can we talk to a conservative? The scientist is used to work. The other is waiting everything from God with prayer beads in his hand. It is not fair to give a bread to such a man.

There are some useful sayings of The Prophet Mohammed. On the other hand they have also poisoned us. He said “Have the dinner, don’t think about the breakfast!” But it is important why he said this and for whom? We have preferred the slothfulness, laziness without understanding and listening.

Wheras he said this in order to prevent the worry and pain. Because the thoughts about “what will be tomarrow, will I gain or not?” will tend to destroy our peace. Maybe he have said this to a poor man or the one who was unable to work. He intended to save him from the economic troubles and to teach him how to resign into God’s hands. Is it conveniant to generalize the words which are said for just someone. If it is so, why he said that “ the one working, is the friend of God. “ ? If we could able to hear this word,   we wouldn’t interpret the other hadith with an old-line attitude. We wouldn’t give up to work and prefer to pray instead.

In a religious magazine, there was an advice for the clerics such that: “Don’t ever advice to pray the “Salâten Tuncînâ” everyday. In this case it decreases the acuteness of this prayer. Then when it is needed, it will be useless. This prayer is to counteract our enemies to conquer our country. Germans could’t enter from our border by means of this prayer. “

You see, we lag behind because of those type of understandings.

The prayer is a good thing for being close to God. But if we pray without working and request bread from God, this prayer becomes the result of our weakness.

The Prophet Mohammed had never prayed, instead he got involved in reasons. He said “your weapon must be stronger than the enemy’s! “. He hadn’t use prayer instead of the weapon. However we prayed Salâten Tüncînâ in our mosques during the first world war but we used to be defeated in front- line because our weapons were not perfect. I mean we have to pray and work at the same time.

This place is constructed by Mr. İhsan. This is a hospital. Can it be a prayerhouse? I mean can there be a surgery by means of prayer? Lets build the hospital first, make ready the equipments and medicines and then pray God to help us. That’s the right and fine way.

(We offer the following revelation to our venerable readers):

Revelation